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Hillary Should Be President, But They Would Rather Watch Trump On TV

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Hillary Should Be President, But They Would Rather Watch Trump On TV

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Hillary Clinton

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. — H. L. Mencken

My most recent one-to-one conversation with Hillary Clinton took place in October 1991, and I’ve been laughing at myself ever since.

It was an epochal day in Arkansas life. Only that morning, the Arkansas Gazette — the oldest newspaper west of the Mississippi, and one of the best—had ceased publication. Many friends had lost their livelihoods.

We ran into the Clintons at a barbecue outside War Memorial Stadium before the last Arkansas-Texas football game in the Southwest Conference. For Razorback fans, i.e. almost everybody, that too was unsettling. Hating Texas on game day was an indispensable part of being an Arkansan. Would anything be the same again?

Days before, Gov. Clinton had announced his presidential candidacy and set off on a ludicrous “listening tour” of the state seeking voters’ permission. He’d promised to serve out his term, but President Bush no longer looked invulnerable. Calculations had changed.

Breaking the GOP hold on the South could change everything.

Diane had been an aide to our host, former governor and then-Sen. David Pryor—a loyal Democrat but no Clintonite. An Arkansas patriot, she gave the big lug a hug and said “Go for it!” I turned to Hillary, and, just to be a smart-aleck, asked, “Have y’all lost your minds? You’ll never have a private life again.”

In my sexist way, I’d simply assumed that the woman was the saner of the two Clintons, and was in thrall to Bill’s mad ambition. That’s certainly true at our house. I was writing a book, but had never covered Arkansas politics. I’d have called the Clintons friendly acquaintances, no more.

I teased Hillary about her well-known role brown-nosing a notoriously erratic but influential local columnist for the victorious Arkansas Democrat. She was known to phone him regularly for advice.

“The problem,” I remember her saying “is that there’s just no end to it. You’ve got to feed his ego every single day.”

We had a spirited talk about the vagaries of the press. Our mutual assumption was that the national media would be different.

And so it turned out to be — except worse, infinitely worse.

See, in a small state like Arkansas the press can be held accountable. In New York and Washington, not so much. Once reporters and pundits become celebrities in their own right, and there’s serious money to be made peddling bogus scandals and conspiracy theories, all bets are off.

And this was before the Internet.

Fast forward 25 years to last week’s Election Eve rally in Philadelphia. By now, I’d long understood that Hillary Clinton’s ambition may actually exceed her husband’s — if only because she’s anything but a natural campaigner. She has to grit her teeth every time. I read something recently about her attending more than 400 fund-raisers during her presidential campaign. 400!

(I believe I’d draw the line at four. So I guess I’ll never be president.)

But joking aside, I’ve been saying privately for months that if Hillary lost, I was going to be angry with her for running at all. As I’ve written, she’d be a fine president if she could be appointed. She’s a tough cookie with a brilliant mind and spine of steel. Nobody better in a tight spot.

However, watching her take the podium in Philly after Bruce Springsteen and a characteristically eloquent President Obama was a worrying reminder that she has little stage presence and distinctly limited oratorical skills.

Along with a tin ear. “Basket of deplorables” has to be the worst clunker in presidential campaign history. If you’re going insult half the population, why not be witty about it?

“The American people,” Mencken wrote, “constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages.”

Sure it’s a little wordy, but it conveys the same thought.

Also, as I wrote some months ago, “accepting preposterous fees to speak to Wall Street bankers and then keeping the contents secret is no way to run for president.” Did what it’s tempting to call Hillary’s moral vanity prevent her from grasping how that would look to ordinary wage-earners?

It sure looked that way.

(Diane doesn’t agree with my writing these things. When they worked together on the Arkansas Children’s Hospital board, Hillary was kind and solicitous during a prolonged medical crisis involving our son, earning her lifelong gratitude.)

Even so, I believe Hillary’s analysis is correct. No FBI interference in the election, no President Trump. Alas, however, it’s a TV show. Too many people think they’d prefer watching Trump. Sure, he’s a moral cripple, an ignoramus, and an epic liar, but he can be entertaining.

I do hope she comes to think it was all worth it.

IMAGE: U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton waves as she boards her campaign plane at the Westchester County airport in White Plains, New York, U.S., September 21, 2016. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

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Gene Lyons

Gene Lyons is a political columnist and author. Lyons writes a column for the Arkansas Times that is nationally syndicated by United Media. He was previously a general editor at Newsweek as wells an associate editor at Texas Monthly where he won a National Magazine Award in 1980. He contributes to Salon.com and has written for such magazines as Harper's, The New York Times Magazine, The New York Review of Books, Entertainment Weekly, Washington Monthly, The Nation, Esquire, and Slate.

A graduate of Rutgers University with a Ph.D. in English from the University of Virginia, Lyons taught at the Universities of Massachusetts, Arkansas and Texas before becoming a full-time writer in 1976. A native of New Jersey, Lyons has lived in Arkansas with his wife Diane since 1972. The Lyons live on a cattle farm near Houston, Ark., with a half-dozen dogs, several cats, three horses, and a growing herd of Fleckvieh Simmental cows.
Lyons has written several books including The Higher Illiteracy (University of Arkansas, 1988), Widow's Web (Simon & Schuster, 1993), Fools for Scandal (Franklin Square, 1996) as well as The Hunting Of The President: The 10 Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton, which he co-authored with National Memo Editor-in-Chief Joe Conason.

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133 Comments

  1. blanche.herrera.92 November 16, 2016

    1 yr ago I resigned from my last job and it was a best decision i made in my life… I started to work over internet, over a website I stumbled upon online, for a few hours /a day, and I earn much more than i did on my previous work… My last month payment was for 9 thousand bucks… Awesome thing about it is that now i have more time for my loved ones… http://chilp.it/8d93f4b

    Reply
  2. AgLander November 16, 2016

    Notice to all liberals: Time for your morning diaper change and administration of your anti anxiety pill, Xanax.

    Reply
    1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth November 16, 2016

      Trump’s main cheer-leader doing her daily pom-pom routine. You still haven’t had that psychiatric evaluation.

      Reply
    2. mkevinf November 16, 2016

      Do you have any of that left over from the supply you’ve been using for the last 8 years?

      Reply
      1. idamag November 16, 2016

        He is a fool, shun him.

        Reply
    3. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

      Aggie – let’s see exactly where the country is in 2 years under the elitist trump. Let’s record the facts of our current state –
      the recession is over, unemployment is at an all time low, stocks are up, housing has recovered, auto industry has recovered, gas is at $2/gallon, reduced number of soldiers abroad, and overall the economy is better now that 8 years ago. While some have still be left behind, majority of the country is doing better under President Obama and his policies.
      Let’s revisit this in 2 years Ag – let’s see if you’ll be the one needing a diaper change and a refill of your Xanax script.
      If you aren’t, I’ll be the first to say “you were right Ag” we are better under Agent Orange. I doubt this will be the case because we’ll be too busy fighting off the Russians who will be taking over but I’ll admit to being the first to pat you on the back if I’m wrong.

      Reply
    4. Thoughtopsy November 16, 2016

      It’s going to be so enjoyable watching Trump screw you over… slowly.
      Don’t worry.
      We’ll be here to point out how much you’ve been conned.

      Reply
  3. Aaron_of_Portsmouth November 16, 2016

    “The American people,” Mencken wrote, “constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages.”

    Fortunately, this doesn’t describe a majority of Americans, but there’s a large contingent who fit this description—large enough to put a drag on America moving forward, and obsessed with gaudy showmen and vaudeville antics. And they don’t care about Trump’s outrageous and unholy acts and attitudes, but would rather be consumed with anger and see email mishandling as far more dangerous in their tiny minds than Trump’s propensity of groping women and grabbing them by the _ _ _ _ _.
    So much for the so-called “Moral Majority”.

    Reply
    1. AgLander November 16, 2016

      Reform the social rot and oppression of women in your beloved Oman first. Reform your 5th century interpretation of Islam first. Reform the poisonous theology of hate that infects your brain first. Set a good example in your life first……THEN come back to this site and enjoy your newfound moral authority to preach to us about how to live!

      Reply
      1. The lucky one November 16, 2016

        Reform the poisonous theology of hate that infects your brain first. Good advice, if you can follow it aggie.

        Reply
      2. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

        I bet you made exactly these same demands of Christians after Timothy McVeigh.

        Reply
    2. idamag November 16, 2016

      The moral majority is neither.

      Reply
  4. janet444 November 16, 2016

    She did not call half the voters a “basket of deplorables.” And it saddens and angers me that Trump can say so many hateful things and get away with it, but this one thing was taken completely out of context (unlike the things Trump has said and done). Here is what she said:

    “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.”

    “But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”

    Reply
    1. AgLander November 16, 2016

      She said it, she meant it the way she said it…..how “Clintonesque” of you to now say she didn’t……..there are liars and then there are comfortable liars…you fit the definition of the latter.

      Reply
      1. The lucky one November 16, 2016

        And there are serial liars like your boy Drumpf and there are imbeciles who believe the lies, like you. Forget Clinton, he’s done. You need to spend your time making up excuses for Trump so that you’re ready to serve.

        Reply
        1. idamag November 16, 2016

          He is lying and showing his ignorance all the time.
          He who knows, but knows not he knows, is asleep, awaken him.
          He who knows not and knows he knows not, is a child, teach him.
          He who knows and knows he knows is wise follow him.
          He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a fool, shun him.
          Ag the backcountry scratching yeomen knows not and knows not he knows not. shun him..

          Reply
      2. Thoughtopsy November 16, 2016

        I guess English is not your first language after all.

        Reply
      3. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

        OK thanks for the word salad. Sorry you hate women!

        Reply
    2. Mama Bear November 16, 2016

      thanks for that reminder janet. The ignorance displayed during this election has been incredible. I suppose in the end people who are culturally isolated and tribal cannot move out of that little circle.

      Reply
      1. Dan S November 16, 2016

        I myself after retiring with a pension after 30 years with the same company I am now preparing to go back to school. The world has changed & if people aren’t willing to make the effort to retrain they’ll be left behind. Short of Trump using nukes I’m trusting this Republic holds together. There will be a major correction made at the midterm in 2018 & I won’t be surprised if the Democrats become the majority in both the House & Senate. Right now even the establishment Republicans aren’t welcome or unwilling to work under Trump

        Reply
      2. FT66 November 16, 2016

        I give only six months to those who voted for Trump. The usual question must be put to them: “Is the country on the right track”? Just wait to hear them answer.

        Reply
        1. Mama Bear November 16, 2016

          you are right, FT, that will be a very interesting question to keep asking them…especially when their old jobs don’t materialize.

          Reply
        2. Thoughtopsy November 16, 2016

          Here are my favorite questions:
          1) How’s your wall going?
          2) How’s the deportation of all illegal immigrants going?
          3) How’s the draining of the swamp going?

          It’s going to be hilarious.

          Reply
          1. dpaano November 16, 2016

            Yeah, so far he’s backed down quite a bit on his so-called “wall.” Same with the deportation of the illegal immigrants….I think he has been brought to the realization that getting rid of 11M people will NOT be feasible. Additionally, instead of “draining the swamp,” he’s digging it deeper……so far, he’s nominated several lobbyists, Wall Street elites, and a bunch of others that lived very deeply in that swamp! So, out of the 3 items listed above, he hasn’t accomplished any of them and he hasn’t even taken over the Oval Office yet!!! It remains to be seen how many of his other promises (i.e., lies) go by the wayside! I give his reign of terror a year before his followers realize their mistake!!!

            Reply
        3. Zengo November 16, 2016

          Are you kidding..? They will continue to blame Obama, for any crap that Trump pulls or doesnt

          Reply
          1. FT66 November 17, 2016

            You are quite right. As it looks like Obama staff will continue to work until Trump gets his own people to replace them. Trump might not put effort to find any.

            Reply
    3. charleo1 November 16, 2016

      Bravo!

      Reply
    4. idamag November 16, 2016

      Good! I think it is the deplorables who objecting.

      Reply
  5. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

    What a mindless, sycophantic article. Hillary is a hawk, a corporate stooge and a totally phony pseudo-feminist. Who else would take millions from a Saudi government that denigrates women and executes gays? Trump will be a horrible president, but at least he will galvanize progressives into action, whereas Hillary would have lulled them to sleep for another eight years with false promises and meaningless gestures. Now that Bernie is the ideological leader of the Democratic Party, we at least have a chance to see the party rebuilt along truly progressive lines, which would not happen under Hillary’s leadership. America will look like a very different place, a much better place, after the 2018 mid-term elections.

    Reply
    1. charleo1 November 16, 2016

      I see what you mean, But you’re dead wrong on Hillary being a hawk. And it’s pretty certain Trump will have 50 to 100,000 troops back on the ground in the Middle East, before the next year is out. And you’re also wrong about her taking millions from the Saudis. But absolutely non of it will matter in a few months. As Americans wake up to the huge, and unfixable mistake of electing Trump. One they’ve been demagogued, and propagandized into over emails, false equivalencies, and paid speeches to the corporates.

      Reply
      1. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

        Not a hawk? What do you think a “no-fly” zone means? And of course she took money from the Saudis, and also from Boeing after she got them the contract to sell fighter jets to the Saudis (which the Saudi now use to bomb Yemeni civilians). As for Trump putting boots on the ground, that depends on whether the Dems have the guts to stop him (which they can do, if they are willing to use the filibuster, which they can also use to block his Supreme Court appointment). You’re certainly right about needing to be very tough; whether or not the Dems WILL be tough depends on how they remake their own party. Now that Hillary is totally discredited, they have a once in a generation chance. The only question is: will they have the courage to take it?

        Reply
        1. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

          Let’s talk about courage – the Trump machine isn’t draining the swamp as he promised – he’s promoting them.
          Americans better start bending over and kissing their own hinney’s because we’re about to be raped, pillaged and plundered by the GOP AGAIN! Back to war and recession we go! It’s all about oil and weapons folks and that’s who profits the most when we’re in a war. Our kids die on the battle grounds and these suits make millions.

          Reply
          1. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            And that’s the whole point. Bernie was the peace candidate, but the DNC and the Hillary machine sabotaged his candidacy and now look at the result. The only hope for Democrats (and the country) is to unite behind Bernie to rebuild the party as a progressive, pro-peace party. That starts with supporting Keith Ellison and Tulsi Gabbard as equal Co-Chairs of the DNC, and it also includes filibustering all Trump’s Supreme Court nominations, fighting to overturn Citizens United, and preventing Trump from sending American troops back into Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

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          2. charleo1 November 16, 2016

            No, you missed his point. One of the hardest things I ever tried to get thru my very thick liberal head, is the rest of the Country, and not even the majority of the Democratic Party is as liberal as I am. Has exactly the same priorities, want to see the programs enacted. Or wants to see them enacted as fast or to the extent as I would have them. But we don’t further our common cause by dividing ourselves, and letting people with whom we share virtually nothing ideologically, win elections.

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          3. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            It’s not the Democratic progressives who are dividing the party; it’s the diehard Clinton machine politicians. At least Schumer has recognized that, and is now supporting Keith Ellison for Chair of the DNC. We’ll see whether or not other Clinton-era Dems will come on board or whether they’ll still try to maintain the old machine’s stranglehold on the party apparatus. But make no mistake about it; the overwhelming majority of Democrats, young and old, are with Bernie and the progressive leadership.

            Reply
          4. charleo1 November 16, 2016

            Like I said, I hear you. But are they really? I’m not sure the D. Party should be a lot more progressive. That said, it should also not take for granted those struggling workers in fly over, and rust belt states. Which Burnie got right, and obviously the DNC got wrong. Mainly so the Party, a la Hillary Clinton, could talk about minorities, ACA. higher education, benefits for the poor, Rights for the LGBTQ, equal pay, and citizenship for immigrants, and so on. So the votes for Trump from former Obama supporters were a big surprise that said to Democratic Leadership, hey, what about us? That said, I’m glad to see Burnie, and Elizabeth Warren on the platform with Chuck Schumer, and Joe Manchin. It’s something IMO long overdue. If losing this one, this big, doesn’t send a massage for Party change, then we’re doomed. But I don’t see that as the case at all.

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          5. Ann Waldrum November 16, 2016

            So, please tell me, exactly how the “diehard Clinton machine politicians” destroyed Mr. Sanders in the primaries? I am fascinated to hear your answer. Also please address how Mr. Sanders couldn’t manage to squeeze in one more “corrupt” in his speeches when describing Mrs. Clinton. She started out with a positive favorability rating and after the primaries she was under water. Exactly how did that happen?

            And one more point, how do you think Mr. Sanders was going to pay for all of his policies?

            Reply
          6. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            You really didn’t know that Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who was Hillary’s campaign chair in 2008 and then became chair of the DNC, used her power to reduce the number of debates from 26 down to 8 precisely in order to reduce Bernie’s exposure to Democratic voters? You really didn’t know that Tulsi Gabbard resigned as vice-chair of the DNC in protest against Wasserman Schultz using her power to skew the primaries in favor of Hillary? Why on earth do you think Wasserman Schultz was forced to resign as DNC chair?

            And you didn’t know that the Wikileaks e-mails show that John Podesta, who was Hillary’s campaign chair this time around, was caught corresponding with DNC officials as to where to “turn the knife” into Bernie’s campaign? You really didn’t know any of this? There’s lots more but that will do for a start.

            As for Hillary’s corruption, why do you think she consistently refused to release the texts of her $225,000-a-pop speeches to Goldman Sachs? Once again, we know now thanks to the Wikileaks documents. She told the bankers point blank that you “have to have two positions, one public, one private,” which is exactly what she didn’t want voters to know during the primary campaign. Her negative favorability ratings are not Bernie’s fault any more than are Trump’s negative ratings.

            Hillary and Trump are themselves responsible for their own unfavorability ratings, which came about as voters learned more about them. That’s their own doing and their own respective responsibilities.

            As to how Bernie would pay for his policies, obviously you weren’t listening to any of his speeches or reading his website. He made it clear that he would hugely reduce the bloated military budget as well as subsidies to oil companies and other major corporations, that he would hugely reduce the cost of medical care by undercutting the stranglehold of Big Pharma and the insurance companies, and that he would force big corporations to pay their FAIR share of taxes as well as imposing transaction taxes on Wall Street speculation. That you apparently didn’t know any of this only shows that you weren’t paying attention. I wonder why not.

            Reply
          7. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

            8 debates was STILL TOO MANY. Bernie lost because he only appealed to one demographic: white male millennials. Minority voters overwhelming supported the candidate with the greater civil rights record, which was Clinton.

            You unbelievable d*ckhead.

            Reply
          8. Ann Waldrum November 17, 2016

            Ah, the debate over the debates. Yes, I knew about Debbie reduction of the number of debates — can’t see how you came up with 26: that would be meeting every other week for a year and that cannot be serious. She actually scheduled 6 and they ended up to 10 plus several townhalls, which seemed plenty to me. Frankly I never thought Bernie, who I always liked until he became vicious, did more than hold his own. HRC never suffered from any of those debates performances because she is quite good at debating. And I knew about the odd scheduling but so what? Did you want the voters to tune out because they saw them so frequently just like they did with the Repubs? Ten seemed a good number to me particularly since Bernie and HRC had a good opportunity to argue most issues, except Climate Change.

            I don’t care about reading stolen emails, thanks. I read some of the fake ones and knew that I would not waste my time. What amazes me is the huffiness of those who have read Mr. Podesta’s emails: they are shocked, SHOCKED that politics was happening. As your boy Bernie said, “if they had hacked mine, it would have sounded much the same.” Another point that is amusing: you are shocked that a lifelong democrat would prefer a lifelong democrat to win the nomination against someone who just ran for president but couldn’t be bothered to change his registration from Independent to Democrat. There is a reason, sir, that very few of the superdelegates, i.e. officeholders, did not endorse Mr. Sanders. He doesn’t play well with others — never has. They have all served with him but endorsed Hillary. Why might that be?

            And your point about “As for Hillary’s corruption, why do you think she consistently refused to release the texts of her $225,000-a-pop speeches to Goldman Sachs?” That, sir, is a complete misrepresentation of Hillary’s position. She always said that she would release her speeches when ALL candidates, including Republicans, released theirs. She did that because Trump had had paid speeches with some fees exceeding $1 million per speech. Speaking of “corruption,” It does not go unnoticed that you failed too mention that she and her husband tax returns are public information going back over 30 years and yet the clock ran out on Bernie’s wife ever finding the time to get back home and pull out the file on his tax returns. We got ONE year in summary form from BS. Why do you think they kept putting off furnishing those?

            Obviously you still don’t understand why Hillary gave those speeches. Well, I think her reasoning was two-fold: follow in the steps of prior SOS and other former officials who have all given such paid speeches and “gird your loins” in building up the bank account because if she ran they will come after her with one lawsuit after another just like they did before. When they left the White House they owed in excess of $10 million in attorneys fees from defending themselves in multiple specious lawsuits which would have required them to earn at least $20-$25 million to pay just the attorneys fees. That was at the end of the 90’s; imagine the cost today.

            Now to my favorite part: “She told the bankers point blank that you “have to have two positions, one public, one private,” which is exactly what she didn’t want voters to know during the primary campaign.” I can see a 24 year old making that argument but not a 74 year old. Have you ever bought a house? Paid the asking price for it? How about a car? Full sticker price? If you have ever negotiated anything in your seven decades then, you, too, have a public and a private position. It is that simple. And any adult should know that and particularly one who has been a diplomat!

            You, Mr. Green, are why we have Trump drawing up his list of Muslims and figuring a way around Congress to build his wall. You, sir, are why we may have John Bolton as SOS and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions as Attorney General, if we don’t get Mr. Kobach. Because, sir, you bought every line that Bernie sold and couldn’t distinguish fact from fiction. Bernie is a good salesman, is he not?

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          9. lockHilliaryup November 17, 2016
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          10. dpaano November 17, 2016

            And YOUR candidate is competent? Seriously?

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          11. lockHilliaryup November 17, 2016

            proven record of being bright enough to figure out how that electoral college works.

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          12. dpaano November 18, 2016

            And, he thought it was rigged too until he won….isn’t that interesting? Once he won, suddenly the Electoral College was the best thing since sliced bread! He’s a hypocrite and so are you. He had NO idea how it worked until he won!

            Reply
          13. lockHilliaryup November 19, 2016

            Cannot deal with the fact that Hillary was too slow to figure it out can you?

            Reply
          14. dpaano November 18, 2016

            Seriously? If I were to list all the things that President Obama did for this country during his tenure, it would take too much room! Again, you’ve been brainwashed into believing that he was not the great president that he is and was. He’s done more for this country than any previous Republican president ever did…..you might want to read something other than a rightwing site. Do your homework, please!

            Reply
          15. lockHilliaryup November 19, 2016

            Obama did a great job of raising healthcare costs.

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          16. lockHilliaryup November 17, 2016
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          17. dpaano November 17, 2016

            And you actually believe those Wikileaks? Seriously? You DO know, of course, that those e-mails could have been tampered with by any number of people having access to them. It’s already been proven that the Russians had quite a group of cypersneaks working on putting down both Hillary AND Bernie, and they used Wikileaks as their platform. I don’t believe ANYTHING that comes out from Wikilinks….nothing they have could not have been tampered with prior to being released.

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          18. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

            Ah, only white people’s votes should have counted in the primaries.

            Got it, thanks.

            You unbelievable d*ckhead.

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          19. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

            Your kidding yourself if you think Bernie would have won the presidency. He’s 74, the oldest of the 3 and looked very frail on the campaign trail. Too little too late.

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          20. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            Oh, would you get over your age-ist horse manure already? I’m 74, my wife is 73, we just got back from two weeks of mountain climbing in Switzerland, and we could both run rings around you and your twenty-something pals. And so could Bernie. And if you really believe he wouldn’t have beaten Trump hands down, you’re the one who’s kidding yourself.

            Hillary offered nothing to displaced workers in the Rust Belt. Bernie offered them a credible alternative to Trump. And just in case you’re open to facts, of the 23 states Bernie won in the primaries, 15 went to Trump in the election. That should tell you something about Bernie’s and Hillary’s comparative ability to get out the Democratic vote. Trump carried those states because almost 50 percent of Democratic voters stayed home in November. They didn’t stay home when Bernie was running, and they would not have stayed home if he had been the party’s candidate.

            The one silver lining in all this is that with the Clinton machine finally discredited once and for all, Bernie is the ideological leader of the Democratic Party. Are you pipsqueaks going to support him or not? And just in case you hadn’t noticed, he is already working with the younger generation of progressive leadership, including Keith Ellison and Tulsi Gabbard. Young enough for you, or are you holding out for the teenage mutant ninja turtles?

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          21. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

            Dude settle down – no need to flex for me.
            I’m approaching 50, a cancer survivor, run the Iron Man every other year and have climbed Mt Everest – if we’re waving our “run rings” flags.
            Bernie’s time has come and gone and the millennials that voted for 3rd party are the ones who screwed the pooch this election – all while wondering why they can’t move out from their parents houses because they have enormous college debt and haven’t figured out that his trickle down sh$$ doesn’t work. Our economy is still recovering from the Bush/Cheney recession and their great trickling leadership.
            Now if you’re open to some facts – HRC won the popular vote by over 1 million votes and it’s still climbing – Bernie wouldn’t have come close. Sorry but there were a lot of folks that couldn’t get on board with him.
            Oh and mutant ninja turtles? Really? Oy vey…

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          22. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            You’re a cancer survivor? Good for you. As it happens, so am I. But I’m not the one who raised the age issue — you are. Bernie may never run for president again, but that does NOT mean his “time has come and gone.” Rebuilding a political party is NOT a one-man show, and if anything, Bernie is already doing a fabulous job of supporting a new generation of leadership.

            Equally important, you’re simply wrong on the facts with respect to third party voters. There is not one state where the Green Party vote exceeded the difference in votes between Trump and Hillary. So stop blaming third party voters. They didn’t lose the election for the Democrats; Hillary did. And the very idea that you ascribe trickle-down economics to Bernie simply shows how totally ignorant you are of his actual policies.

            And that, in turn, shows how completely unfounded is your claim that Bernie “wouldn’t have come close” to beating Trump. Quite the contrary; of the 23 states that Bernie won during the primaries, 15 went for Trump in the election. That’s because Bernie inspired Democrats to come out and vote. Hillary didn’t. THAT is why she lost.

            As to mutant ninja turtles, I mentioned that to lampoon your ridiculous age-ist argument. I guess it went over your head.

            Reply
          23. dpaano November 16, 2016

            And you think Trump offered something to the displaced workers? He has NO way of getting their jobs back for them. Hillary had wanted to get money from Congress to retrain them so that they could get back to work. The old “assembly lines” are no longer there…..jobs are more computerized, mechanized, robotized, etc., and the people who lost their jobs haven’t bothered to get themselves trained in these skills…..so, until they do, they won’t find their jobs coming back. AND, even if Trump tries to bring them back from China (maybe he can bring his clothing line back first), they STILL wouldn’t be able to fit into the new manufacturing platform!
            As for your wife and you being able to mountain climb in Switzerland….first of all, being 70 myself, I would LOVE to do that, but my knees won’t take it (thanks to my military career….they’re in bad shape). Additionally, not many of us oldsters have the money to just drop everything and travel to Switzerland to climb mountains! Apparently, you do, but most of us don’t. In fact, most of us are still working full-time jobs because we can’t afford to live on our Social Security, our 401(k) plans, etc. Get a life, okay? I seriously doubt if Bernie will run again…..if he does, then I applaud him, but I doubt if he’ll get as much notoriety now as he had during this past campaign!

            Reply
          24. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            “Get a life,” you say? My wife and I worked hard, saved our money, and that’s why we have the life we do. I’m sad for you that you can’t afford to travel the way we do, but we didn’t do that to you. Corporate Republicans AND corporate Democrats, the Clintons included, did that to you (see NAFTA, repeal of Glass-Steagall, Iraq War, bank bailouts, etc.), and Bernie has had the courage to take them on — ALL of them, Republicans and Democrats alike. You should be grateful that he’s fighting on your behalf, which he is.

            Reply
          25. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

            Oh no not NAFTA! All those jobs it… created.

            You unbelievable d*ckhead.

            Reply
          26. dpaano November 16, 2016

            Hillary and her group NEVER sabotaged his campaign….he lost fair and square. One of these days you’ll get that through your thick skull……as for Bernie running in 4 years, don’t count on it. He’s already a VERY senior citizen, and I don’t foresee him being able to handle another campaign, especially if he’s the sole individual campaigning against Trump for re-election!

            Reply
          27. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            You really believe Bernie lost “fair and square”? What on earth are you smoking? And who said anything about Bernie himself running in 2020? Rebuilding the party does not mean running a one-man show; quite the contrary, it means helping to develop a new generation of leadership, which is exactly what Bernie is doing. As for the filibuster, everything you have written indicates that you have no idea how the filibuster actually works. Perhaps you should find out before you keep writing nonsense about it.

            Reply
          28. dpaano November 17, 2016

            I know a bit about filibustering and how it works…..I’m pretty astute when it comes to politics. And, yes, Bernie did lose fair and square…..he lost many states that went to Hillary, so how do you think he lost? Are you saying the state’s elections were “rigged” so that he couldn’t win? Seriously? I know that the GOP and their Russian cohorts (read, cypersneaks), managed to jury rig some e-mails that seemed to show that the Hillary campaign sabotaged his run for the nomination, but that’s just what they were……maybe YOU don’t know what you’re talking about either. Can we just agree to disagree and just put our heads and hearts together and work towards getting progressives back into the White House and stop carping at each other about what went wrong or what did or didn’t happen? It’s over, the damage is done, now we need to get together and try to get through it and change the course!

            Reply
        2. charleo1 November 16, 2016

          The point is moot, but any no-fly zone is going to need to be a joint effort agreed to by all parties with an air force. And cannot be viewed as ever having any part to do with a head to head confrontation with Iran, Russia, or it’s proxy the Assad regime over Syrian air space. So that’s what I think any such tactic would need to look like, and Clinton has never said anything to the contrary. See how you’ve allow yourself to be skewed by listening to dumbed down half true partisan rhetoric? See how it’s going to hurt you and your family later on? Of course you don’t. You believe a protest vote that elected this nitwit Trump was well deserved for the East, and West Coast liberal elites. That it’ll cause ’em to toughen up…teach em a lesson. As if after the next couple of Supreme Court nominations, it’ll make any difference for the next 40 years. That’s why I said, if we’re going to turn out to be be that dumb, we’re really going to need to toughen up.

          Reply
          1. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            You seem to think I supported Trump. Sounds like you need a course in remedial reading.

            Reply
          2. meridaest November 17, 2016

            charleo1 said nothing to make me think you supported Trump unless you cast a misguided protest vote. Do you chose to not understand what he wrote or are you unable to understand it?

            Reply
          3. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

            You didn’t vote for Hillary. You supported Trump.

            You unbelievable d*ckhead.

            Reply
          4. charleo1 November 17, 2016

            You were a Burnie Sanders supporter who’s candidate didn’t win the primary. Then I what I read is you decided to be a jerk, and vote third party, or sit home. Even though you were plenty smart enough to know the stakes. That it was either going to be Clinton, or Trump.
            But you decided, because you didn’t get your way, all the pain, and hardship a Trump Presidency would surely impose on the poor, the immigrant, and Muslim Communities. And the danger it would pose to the Civil Rights of us all. Right along with all the chaos, and just plain incompetency such a buffoon would impose on our Country, and the World. That that would be about right. Would teach all those Hillary supporters, the corporate Democrats, and phony DINOs in this Country, a lesson. And then, after 4 years of Trump, they’d come around to seeing things your way. So what I believe is that it was in this way by your selfish motives, a Trump enabler. In the same way all those who disagreed with Trump, but didn’t show up to the polls allowed this misfit to become our President. Just as responsible for whatever injury evolves. Whatever that is now just sitting out there as fate awaiting us. Just as responsible as the numbskull blue collar workers that foolishly believed his horse crap, and actually did vote for the SOB. Only they perhaps didn’t know any better. What I read of your comments is you absolutely did know better, but didn’t care.

            Reply
        3. Theodora30 November 16, 2016

          No fly zones were key to bringing peace to the Balkans.

          Reply
          1. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            There’s no comparison. The Russians weren’t flying combat missions over the Balkans.

            Reply
        4. dpaano November 16, 2016

          YEs, the Democrats CAN filibuster anything that Trump does, but he also has the power of the Executive Order. Secondly, even if the Democrats filibuster, the Republicans have the number of votes to counteract the filibuster. So, keep on believing all the BS that you’ve heard, and I’ll give Trump a year before we hear you spouting differently!!! He lied to you all, and you’re all going to find out that you’ve been conned by one of the best con men in the country! Hang in there, doctor!!!

          Reply
          1. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

            First of all, you’re dead wrong on the filibuster. The Republicans DO NOT have the votes to override a filibuster. The only way to get around a filibuster with less than sixty Senate votes is to resort to the so-called “nuclear option,” which the Republicans will be VERY reluctant to do, as it would backfire disastrously once the Democrats retake the Senate, as they are very likely to do in 2018.
            Second of all, you seem to think I’m a Trump supporter. If so, you have totally misread what I wrote. Indeed, you couldn’t be more wrong. I supported Bernie for the Democratic nomination, I totally despise Trump, and I totally support Bernie’s “Our Revolution.” Indeed, the ONLY effective way for the Democrats to undercut Trump’s program is unite the Democratic Party under truly progressive leadership, which is exactly what Bernie trying to do. Do you support him, or are you still putting your faith in the discredited Clinton machine?

            Reply
          2. dpaano November 17, 2016

            I didn’t vote for Bernie, and I’m not sure I can actually support him, but I DO support any candidate that will take this country back for progressives. Again, if I misread you, I apologize, but I don’t agree with some of the things you said, which is my right. There are a lot of things that you said that I DO agree with now that you’ve explained. We definitely DO need to spend the next couple of years reuniting the Democratic Party, and I think some of the individuals that are trying to get the job with the DNC, might be the ones to do it. But, we ALL need to unite. We can also hope that some of the Trump followers will see the mistake they made and join the bandwagon!
            In that light, I’m a very active member of the Long Beach (California) “Yes We Can” Democratic Club, and we will be working the next couple of years in making sure that we retake the Senate, the House, and anything else we can get our hands on, trust me on that one!!! We are an extremely active group and have quite an experienced group of members who can do phone calling, tabling, etc. We won’t stop just because the presidential election is over!!! We’re more energized than ever!

            Reply
          3. ivory69690@yahoo.com November 17, 2016

            its just now how long with the brain dead DONNY DUMP followers wait and the depth that the DUMPSTER bury the country before thy wake up and open their eyes too see the clown was never plan to do and will never do all he promised at his B/S rants . he seeks even more so now just for him self . me I think how nuts some of his followers are . it very well could be one of them that try to put one between his eyes for lying to them all .

            Reply
        5. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

          MMMMM yes your imaginary strawman sure does justify your helping an actual fascist who wants to use nuclear weapons get elected.

          You unbelievable d*ckhead.

          Reply
      2. idamag November 16, 2016

        Hillary a hawk? Seems like the last president to get us into a war with phony evidence, was a Republican. Two countries have convicted him and his masters, in absentia, of war crimes. Another country has decided to do the same. People who only listen to cable news and get their ideologies stoked on the internet are not very well informed. Their ignorance is not good for this country.

        Reply
        1. charleo1 November 16, 2016

          Exactly! I don’t believe there are many, if any Democratic Neocons.
          Barack Obama, along with the Democratic Party was pilloried for withdrawing from Iraq. Where the Neocons thought we had ought to have stayed forever in a Country where by rights we should have never invaded in the first place. Where we had no legal mandate, no
          Iraqi local support, and no support from the majority of the American public to stay. Trump says invade, and take their oil. But Hillary is the hawk. That’s about the way the entire campaign against her went on so many levels, from both inside, and outside the Democratic Party.

          Reply
    2. dpaano November 16, 2016

      Gee, are you for real? As I said earlier, Trump promised to “drain the swamp” in Washington, D.C. and get rid of the lobbyists, the Wall Street gang, etc., however, he’s now asked these very same people to join his transition team……again, how many more promises is he going to break before the people who voted for him see him for the con man that he is!!!??? Yes, America WILL look like a very different place, but it’s pretty questionable if it will be a much better place! I have my sincere doubts, and I’m sure his followers will also as time goes on!

      Reply
      1. drdavidgreen November 16, 2016

        I think you missed my point. I said America will be a better place AFTER the 2018 elections, in that I anticipate a HUGE backlash AGAINST Trump once it becomes clear what a hypocrite and a phony he is. As you say, he is already breaking promises even before he’s sworn in, and it will only get worse once he actually takes office. You don’t seem to disagree with that. At the same time, I said he will galvanize progressives into action, which is also ALREADY taking place, whereas Hillary as president would have lulled them to sleep with false promises and meaningless gestures. If you watched Bernie’s speech tonight, you saw how superbly he is already working to rebuild the party along progressive lines, which is exactly what the party needs in order retake the Congress in 2018.

        Reply
        1. meridaest November 17, 2016

          Looking forward to hearing from you in 2 years when all of these new, galvanized progressive voters show up to vote in mid-term elections. Or will there just be whining that there’s no difference between the candidates so why vote?

          Reply
        2. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

          “We had to throw all the minorities under the bus so that I could remain condescending and pure”

          You unbelievable d*ckhead.

          Reply
        3. dpaano November 17, 2016

          Okay, I apologize if I misunderstood you. Personally, I think Bernie is great, but he’s too old to run this country and I think that was his main downfall when you look at it. But, I’m all for building the progressive party, and I can only hope that this election will help the Democratic party to get to work and get back the Congress, our state governorships, etc. I don’t want to see this country turn into an “imperial” presidency much like the GOP would want. It’s bad enough that Trump is trying to put his children and his cronies in place to run the country…..especially when some of his advisors are solid alt right conservatives! In other words, white supremacists, racists, etc. If allowed, they will take this country down and do away with ALL of the laws from the past that have protected the citizens of this country!

          Reply
    3. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

      Wow she’s a hawk and a corporate stooge and totally phony pseudo-feminist huh? Thanks for repeating what the Koch brothers have paid good money to make you believe, you incredible patsy.

      Reply
      1. dpaano November 17, 2016

        Once again……Stockholm Syndrome…..these people have been totally brainwashed to believe all the BS and conspiracy theories that they’ve had thrown at them during this campaign. It’s pretty sad considering that they are going to find out that most of the promises made by Trump will not be forthcoming, especially immigration and the “wall;” putting people back into jobs, doing away with Obamacare, etc. He lied to them so many times, but they kept on believing those lies. Soon they will find out that he was and is the ultimate con man!!! Hopefully, they will see the light very soon when the deficit goes up significantly and our hard-earned taxpayer money is spent on frivolous things that will do NOTHING for the nation as a whole. It will be interesting to watch, but for those of us in the know, it won’t be pretty!

        Reply
    4. meridaest November 17, 2016

      If you spend all of your energy fighting other Democrats, you won’t have any left to fight Trump and the 56% of Dems that voted for Hillary over Bernie will not listen to you. Think about it.

      Reply
      1. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

        That’s exactly what they want, though – they are authoritarians who want to enforce their beliefs on everyone else, and if they don’t get their way they’ll help the enemy (witness Jill Stein, her explicit calls for Trump over Hillary, and her gloating on election night). In other words, they want to replicate the Tea Party on the left – I call them the Herbal Tea Party.

        They literally don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves, and they dare to call themselves progressive.

        Reply
  6. stuart21 November 16, 2016

    It’s the proverbial ‘I wonder what this red (orange) button does?’

    Hang on to your seats, we’re gunna find out.

    Reply
    1. dpaano November 16, 2016

      According to Trump, he was going to “drain the swamp” in Washington DC…throw out all the lobbyists, the Wall Street gang, etc., but now he’s asking them to join his transition team! I hope that the people that voted for him are happy now because this was ONE promise that he made during his campaign and he’s already broken it!!! What will be next?

      Reply
  7. Theodora30 November 16, 2016

    It didn’t not help that well over a year ago The NY Times and WaPo teamed up with Breitbart’s Peter Schweitzer so they could use his “reporting” about the Clinton Foundation. The accusations published by them was readily debunked by others who decided to commit journalism but the damage was done. In contrast the media waited until recent weeks to expose the shady Trump Foundation.

    Reply
    1. Theodora30 November 16, 2016

      Here I see an in depth article explaining how Breitbart’s Steve Bannon manipulates the mainstream “liberal” media.

      Reply
      1. bernieo November 16, 2016

        I see the link did not get posted. I seem to ne having problems with comments posting today.
        https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2015-steve-bannon/

        Reply
    2. planetc November 16, 2016

      It also didn’t help that the NYTimes broke the Clinton email “scandal”, which has proved to be deathless. I think that email “questions” or a scandal, have been mentioned about 90% of the times Clinton was mentioned at all in NPR news coverage. As though we had forgotten since yesterday that the FBI was investigating … something about the emails. I have felt for some time that Clinton is just too boring to be of any interest at all to the current crop of press persons. The country itself is boring, so this attitude is unfortunate.

      Reply
    3. idamag November 16, 2016

      Our loss of true journalism, that was the backbone of civilization, is a threat to our country and to our democracy. Studies have proven that cable tv has caused the drop in intelligent levels in people. I dropped cable. I have local channels and ROKU. I can bring up any show on ROKU and watch it, albeit a couple of days late, but so what. I retained my integrity.

      Reply
    4. Gene Lyons November 16, 2016

      You are absolutely correct, as is planetc below. The NYT and WP have been promoting phony Clinton (and Gore) scandals since 1992, although even many Democrats cannot bring themselves to understand.

      Reply
    5. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

      Clinton has faced unbelievable scrutiny to the likes I’ve never witnessed before. The double standard is very clear to me.

      Reply
  8. planetc November 16, 2016

    Oh, I thought you were going to talk about Steven Rosenfeld’s piece about the perennial red shift between exit poll results and “actual” vote totals. He has a newer piece on Alternet on the same theme, and the conclusion you have to reach is that we don’t know, with any degree of certainty, who was elected. So since the election, the press have been running around keening about how they could have been so wrong, when perhaps they weren’t. But the press these days wants its audience to feel something, not to think something, and nobody wants to think about the possibility our elections are vulnerable to tampering. That would upset the populace. Of course, this year, many people are upset by the announced results of the election. The real possibility is that we should perhaps be saying “President-elect Clinton.” We just don’t know.

    And also, when Mrs. Clinton made the “basket of deplorables” comment, she was probably suffering from walking pneumonia, and should be forgiven for having strayed from here usual rhetorical prudence. Personally, I thought there was only one presidential candidate this year, and her name was Clinton. Perhaps I, like much of the press, was right about the likelihood of her election. But we may never know, since precincts may be destroying paper ballots even as we speak.

    In the richest country in the world, isn’t it odd that we can’t audit our own elections?

    Reply
    1. idamag November 16, 2016

      When Hillary Clinton made the remark about the “basket of deplorables, she was right on the mark. When trump made racist remarks, his poll numbers jumped. When he bragged about grabbing women’s crotches at 60 years old, it was boys will be boys. When he said his bankruptcies were okay because the law was there to help people like him, it was okay. When he refused to honor contracts, he had signed, that was okay, too. When he said he did not break the law by not paying taxes for years, that was acceptable, too, even though he enjoys using that which my taxes help pay for. When the Hustler Magazine photos went on the internet and one shows Melania, butt naked, on her back, with her legs spread and that is okay, too. Then, when the hate groups took over the Republican Party and turned it into something that strives to divide and conquer this nation, that is okay. When our Congress violates the Constitution by refusing to hold hearings on an appointee, that is okay. Party before religion, party before country, that is who they are. They are a basket of deplorables.

      Reply
      1. planetc November 16, 2016

        All of your comments, both on Mr. Trump, and on Republicans generally, are very accurate. But they are moot points if we accept flawed elections as the will of the people. We don’t know which people they are the will of. Personally, I don’t find it a stretch of the imagination to think the Republicans might cheat. They think we’re stupid. If we don’t clean up our elections, they’re right.

        Reply
        1. dpaano November 16, 2016

          I agree considering that Hillary actually won the popular vote by over 300,000+ votes! It’s interesting that the Electoral College hasn’t actually voted yet, and I wonder what would happen if they all decided to vote for the candidate that won the popular vote??? Wouldn’t that be interesting?

          Reply
          1. planetc November 16, 2016

            There’s a petition to do just that at Change.org. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.

            Reply
          2. dpaano November 16, 2016

            Unfortunately, from what I understand, if they DO vote for Hillary over Trump, it has to be ratified by the Congress, and you know where that will go, right? But, I’m all for anything that would change their votes…..

            Reply
          3. planetc November 16, 2016

            A little while ago, you thought it would be interesting, but now you know it would be futile? Congress would not want to ratify, but they are all up for reelection eventually. Sustained pressure might do some real good.

            Reply
          4. dpaano November 17, 2016

            Yes, I still am hoping that something can be done, but I’ve since found out that this would take a Constitutional Amendment, which would have to be approved by Congress. So, it doesn’t seem to be as easy as was first thought. Yes, sustained pressure MIGHT do some good, and I’m all for it. I’ve signed on several petitions and websites to push this. Unfortunately, it may not change this election result, but we have to think of future elections! It’s pretty sad that the 5 times that the popular vote went to a Democrat and was disregarded by the Electoral College and a Republican was nominated was WRONG!! So, yes, sustained pressure is STILL necessary, and I haven’t given up on that in the least!!!

            Reply
          5. dpaano November 17, 2016

            Have signed up already….thank you.

            Reply
          6. Clarity_23 November 16, 2016

            Up to 1M+

            Reply
          7. dpaano November 17, 2016

            Now 1.3 million votes and climbing!

            Reply
        2. Charlotte Sines November 16, 2016

          “Republicans might cheat.” They can’t do anything but. The Republicans cannot win elections that are free and fair. They gerrymander, they pass Voter ID laws and close DMV offices where the ID’s are distributed, they closed polling places, they cut early voting times, they intimidate people to keep them from voting, they put out inaccurate information about voting places, times and even dates. If they really believe they can win fair elections, they should change all these things. If they really believe they can win fairly, PROVE IT!

          Reply
          1. dpaano November 17, 2016

            Yes, they KNEW they had no chance of winning with this candidate, so they did the next best thing…..they “rigged” it so that he couldn’t lose! Talk about a “rigged” election…..Trump’s was rigged to the max! He’s down 1.3 million in popular votes as we speak! If that doesn’t make it a “rigged” election, then I’m not sure I know what a “rigged” election is!!!

            Reply
    2. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

      I thought the same thing. On one hand it’s great that the election results are not centralized due to all the hacking going on but on the other, we can’t audit the results. Very alarming at best. I also think for the wildly large “white male” turnout that some tampering might have taken place but we’ll never know.

      Reply
      1. planetc November 16, 2016

        If unauditable elections are very alarming at best, what’s at worst? Surely such elections are not elections at all, but magical incantations. We voters turn out, wave our hands gracefully, and hope for the best. I’m sure we can do better than this.

        Reply
        1. sharkbait4711 November 16, 2016

          Couldn’t agree more but while gerrymandering is a normal practice and no true bi-partisan counsel exists – how will we ever know the truth?

          Reply
          1. planetc November 16, 2016

            Find some journalists to stand up on their hind legs and ask the question? Find some politicians to ask for an inquiry? A Congressional inquiry, like Benghazi and emails? Wayne Gretzky said: “You will miss 100% of shots you don’t take.”

            Reply
    3. Thoughtopsy November 16, 2016

      It seemed legit. Most states exit polls were within the polling margin of error compared to the vote count.

      What wasn’t legit was the Voter ID laws, the reduced polling places, the lies propagated through the State governments, etc etc that sort of “rigged” the turnout.

      Suppressing any American citizen from voting is simply not democratic.
      That’s Banana Republic level electioneering.

      One state go caught with it’s pants down asking specifically for raced-based voting data then crafting their “Voter ID” laws to “target African American voters with surgical precision”.

      How do these people live with themselves?

      Reply
  9. Stuart November 16, 2016

    If nothing else, this year we got rid of the Bushes and the Clintons. But there may be some Kennedys waiting in the wings.

    Reply
    1. dpaano November 16, 2016

      Wishful thinking….unfortunately, I think we’ve just started the Trump clan. After all, he does have 2 sons, both as dumb as he is, but young enough to run for president one of these days!

      Reply
      1. johninPCFL November 16, 2016

        Yeah. We’ve got Uday and Qusay to deal with now..

        Reply
  10. Jon November 16, 2016

    A system that doesn’t allow auditing of ballots in all 50 states, the increasing number of times the difference between exit polling and the alleged results give an election to the Republican candidate, voter suppression and intimidation, Russian assistance to Trump, tens of thousands of “missing” ballots, James Comey and the FBI campaigning for Trump and feeding Rudy Giuliani information, the media giving Trump and his surrogates constant means to campaign for free, the failure of media to challenge the lies told by Trump and his surrogates while daily promoting lies fed to them by Steve Bannon and his associates about Hillary Clinton tends to prove that Trump was right. However, it was another case of Trump projecting as he does almost daily. The election was rigged but not against Trump.

    Reply
    1. dpaano November 17, 2016

      Yeah, but if he had lost, he would have clearly stated it was “rigged.” He first said that the Electoral College was rigged, but now that he won, you don’t hear him say that anymore! Interesting!

      Reply
      1. Jon November 17, 2016

        Trump wants everything to benefit him. He may be trying to get the oath to uphold the Constitution which cabinet members and other federal employees must swear upon starting employment changed. It seems he thinks it is not fair because he will be CEO and Commander in Chief and the oath should require federal employees to swear loyalty to him. There is no way he can succeed in actually changing the public oath. I wouldn’t be surprised if he requires them to privately swear loyalty to him though.

        Reply
        1. dpaano November 18, 2016

          I wouldn’t doubt it…..he made his employees sign an agreement not to talk about him or the business to anyone…..why would this be any different? We used to hate secrecy in our government….now we’re going to get it twofold!

          Reply
  11. woodrose November 16, 2016

    I so wish Hillary had decided not to run. She never had any real chance to win the Rust Belt since she is married to the man who signed NAFTA. The Democratic leadership’s early backing of her has left us with a catastrophe.

    Reply
    1. JPHALL November 16, 2016

      The real truth is that she is a she and not a he. She won the popular vote despite all the noise. But there were so many voters who could not vote for a woman as leader. I heard that in bars, barbershops, at churches and from people I worked with.

      Reply
      1. FireBaron November 17, 2016

        I don’t think it was so much a woman as that woman. Had the Republicans nominated someone with a clue, like Condi Rice, she would have won by a landslide!

        Reply
        1. dpaano November 17, 2016

          I’m not sure Condi has a clue either…..plus, they would have gone batshit over her missing e-mails and her private server, much like they did with Hillary (maybe not, but you never know). Condi wasn’t that great in her job as people seem to think……she had a big part in the Iraq lie that started all the problems that we’re seeing in the Middle East. She’d have too much baggage! The GOP had a fit because Hillary voted for the lie…..what would they do to someone who actually CREATED the lie!

          Reply
    2. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

      Oh no, not NAFTA, that treaty that created a bunch of jobs and put cross-border environmental protections in place.

      The real issue is that extremists like Jill Stein and their absolutely false narratives are given even the slightest credence within the left. They should be vilified as the dangerous idiots that they are.

      Reply
      1. woodrose November 17, 2016

        Blue collar workers throughout the Rust Belt had to pack up machines and send them, and their jobs, to Mexico. People don’t forget things like that.

        Reply
        1. I Am Helpy November 17, 2016

          Except that isn’t actually true.

          Reply
        2. dpaano November 17, 2016

          What people? What jobs? Those jobs were going to other countries despite anything. Trade agreements have NOTHING to do with companies leaving the United States and moving to other countries…..do you not understand what a trade agreement is? The companies that left for Mexico and other countries left because of their greed…..they knew they could get the same products made overseas and pay the employees less money. They knew they wouldn’t have to put up with unions, with regulations, etc. So, now we have substandard products coming back to the U.S. from various places like China, Vietnam, etc. Unfortunately, the Rust Belt just don’t realize this and were totally brainwashed by the GOP into believing that trade agreements took their jobs away! What they didn’t realize is that Hillary was hoping to get money from Congress to retrain these people in the Rust Belt so that they COULD find jobs. Today’s jobs are more technical, more computerized, robotized, and mechanized……they aren’t the old “assembly line” jobs that used to be in the U.S. and without re-training, no one can put these people back into jobs. It’s already been said that Trump can’t do what he promised and bring back jobs…….the only jobs that he can bring back would be ones that you and others wouldn’t be able to fill because you don’t have enough training to do them. On another note, why don’t we hear from Trump as to when he’s going to bring back his clothing line jobs from China…..or when Ivanka is going to bring her jewelry and other businesses back from overseas? Why haven’t we heard anything from Trump about this?

          Reply
          1. ivory69690@yahoo.com November 18, 2016

            and those like DONNY DUMP greedy people are not going to come back to the USA to make less money . now the DUMPSTER clan will be working the country from behind daddy DUMPSTER its screw the USA time for DONNY DUMP with the Russian’s and China heck he would deal with the cartel and ISIS if there’s money to be made his own EGO & GREED is what will hang the POS

            Reply
    3. dpaano November 17, 2016

      Unfortunately, you have chosen to believe Trump’s BS about NAFTA. NAFTA has put more people in the United States to work, but apparently, you aren’t aware of that. You may want to “google” NAFTA and find out just exactly what it was and how many jobs it brought to the U.S. For some reason, you think that these free trade agreements take jobs away from American citizens, but, in fact, they do nothing of the sort! Get educated before you start denigrating something that you know NOTHING about. And, yes, we are left with a catastrophe…..we now have to deal with a narcissistic individual with NO knowledge of how to run this country and who is listening to people, like him, who ALSO have no knowledge or have only ONE thing in mind……changing this country into an alt right conservative country with no rights, no regulations, etc. So, pat yourself on the back, but I’ll give you a year before you realize what a mistake you made in voting for this individual.

      Reply
      1. woodrose November 17, 2016

        Good grief, just because I can look at a map and see that the Rust Belt got its revenge on the Clintons for NAFTA doesn’t mean I voted for a reality TV carnival barker.

        Reply
  12. RedBunny November 17, 2016

    Sander would have won, but Hillary and the DNC cheated him out of a victory.

    Reply
    1. ivory69690@yahoo.com November 18, 2016

      I believe he would of won too . he didn’t have to worry about the B/S the FBI pulled 9 days before the election COMA COMEY should be shot then two days left he said ok alls good with Hillary now that was all B/S the straw that broke the camels back . and with only 2 days left by then every one either make their choose or already voted

      Reply
  13. ivory69690@yahoo.com November 18, 2016

    and here’s another part of DONNY DUMPS clown show he is screening only people that he can hire and then fire that’s it let him fire the general like the clown said he was going too do . one might call the DUMPSTER smart those are the stupid ones . his so called smart only ride with his fraud con and scamming every one he can . and now the DUMPSTER is going to lay out his big fraud con and scamming on the country . BUT HE IS A FOOL and being that his one of 2 things will screw the screwer his greed and his worthless EGO . and with those 2 down faults one will catch the clown . he will and mark my words on this HE WILL GET HIS HAND STUCK IN THE COOKIE JAR and then he will do jail time . he should be doing it already and for all the case’s against him now no judge of the land should let him snake out of these trails lawsuit and crimes just because he was able to con and scam his way to the house

    Reply

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