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Obama Administration To Ask Judge To Lift Block On Immigration Actions

Politics Tribune News Service

Obama Administration To Ask Judge To Lift Block On Immigration Actions

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By Joseph Tanfani, Tribune Washington Bureau (TNS)

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration said Friday it will ask a judge to allow it to continue with plans to offer protection from deportation to millions of people living in the U.S. illegally.

Department of Justice lawyers plan to file a motion by Monday requesting that a federal judge in Texas stay his order that temporarily blocks President Barack Obama’s immigration programs, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said.

If the judge, Andrew S. Hanen, denies the request, as many legal experts expect, the administration could file an appeal with the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and later the Supreme Court.
Hanen issued the order Monday in a lawsuit filed by Texas and two dozen other states, mostly led by Republicans. They sued to block the president’s move last year to use his executive authority to shield from deportation about half of the 11 million people living in the U.S. illegally.

Immigrants who qualify would get a three-year permit to stay in the country.

In his order Monday, Hanen said Obama overstepped his legal authority.

The administration cannot “enact a program whereby it not only ignores the dictates of Congress but actively acts to thwart them,” Hanen ruled.

But he based his injunction on narrow legal grounds, saying that the underlying constitutional issues needed a full hearing and that his ruling would preserve the status quo in the meantime.

The decision by Hanen, who has a record of rulings harshly critical of what he views as lax immigration enforcement, created a stumbling block for the administration’s plans.

The first piece of the immigration program was due to roll out this week but has been put on hold. The biggest part of the program, which would cover up to 4 million adults who’ve been in the country since 2010, was scheduled to open to applicants in May.

Despite the ruling, Obama made it clear that the administration would press ahead with preparations for the immigration programs, which include the hiring of thousands of workers to process an expected rush of applications.

“We are doing the preparatory work because this is a big piece of business,” Obama told reporters this week. “We want to make sure as soon as these legal issues get resolved, which I anticipate they will in our favor, that we are ready to go.”

Obama and his Democratic allies in Congress are also fighting to stave off another assault on the executive actions, this one from Republican leaders who are trying to use a bill to fund the Homeland Security department to block the immigration executive actions. The measure passed the House, but ran into Democratic opposition the Senate.

Lawmakers on both sides have vowed not to back down in the standoff; the funding for the department, which handles all border and customs enforcement, runs out on Feb. 28.

Photo: U.S. President Barack Obama speaks during a meeting with a group of young undocumented immigrants in the Oval Office of the White House on Feb. 4, 2015 in Washington, D.C. The five immigrants, known as “dreamers,” who meet with the president have received protections from deportation under a program Obama implemented in 2012. (Olivier Douliery/Abaca Press/TNS)

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101 Comments

  1. James Bowen February 20, 2015

    I hope Judge Hanen’s injuction ultimately becomes permanent.

    Reply
    1. kenndeb February 21, 2015

      Hopefully more patriots will start to stand up to this tyrant we now have residing in our White House.

      Reply
      1. jmprint February 21, 2015

        He is not a tyrant, I’m sure if they are true patriots they won’t think like you. True patriots are not KKK lovers.

        Reply
      2. James Bagley February 22, 2015

        I’m telling you, low-T is a heartbreaking yet totally treatable condition. Please see your doctor — fearfully peeking out of your curtains looking for boogeymen who don’t even exist must be a horrible existence. Doc can get you feeling (and behaving) like a man again. If you have no health insurance, Obamacare can help you afford the medical bills. If you are afraid that the local KKK chapter will be offended, you could always put on a disguise when logging onto the web site. Good luck.

        Reply
    2. James Bagley February 22, 2015

      It won’t. The right-wing hack judge carefully made sure to steer clear of Constitutional issues and instead use an arcane technicality regarding publishing the plans in the Federal Register. This is because he knows full well that Texas has no real legal standing for interfering in a federal matter (immigration).

      The Texas hack-judge will be forced to deny the Administration’s request, which will immediately give the Administration grounds for appeal to a higher court. States have no say in immigration — that’s the province of the federal government alone. Since Congress is too cowardly to act — because almost 80% of Americans support Obama’s immigration policy (immigrant-hating European immigrants notwithstanding) and they know full well what doing so will mean for their jobs (they will lose them) — Texas or any other state has no real legal grounds to challenge the issue and will ultimately lose.

      So in reality, this latest dirty Republican bigot-hack trick will simply make the immigration action less vulnerable to further challenge, will serve to wake up the Latino electorate in 2016, and will remind Americans that the GOP is still seriously out of touch with the rest of America. Add to that the likely attempts by Republicans to block funding for Homeland Security, and all of America will once again be reminded that the current GOP isn’t fit to hold the White House.

      America is a country of immigrants. The fact that some European immigrants have become intolerant, bigoted zealots who’ve forgotten that they are immigrants doesn’t change that, and decent people are uncomfortable displaying mean-spirited hypocrisy, selfishness, and intolerant hate toward other immigrants. Immigrant haters have always lost on this issue, and they will lose again this time. Intolerant hate has no future.

      Reply
      1. James Bowen February 22, 2015

        He has yet to review the Constitutional issues, but he does suspect there are Constitutional issues, which is why he issued the injuction.

        Where is your evidence that 80% of Americans support this action? I have showed you mountains of evidence that they don’t. Also, your statement makes no sense. If 80% of Americans support something, Congress has nothing to be afraid of. The GOP has many problems, but on this issue most GOP members of Congress know very well how Americans view this issue and are acting accordingly.

        Reply
        1. James Bagley February 22, 2015

          See the post above to angelsinca. Apparently you also suffer from poor reading skills: What I said was ‘almost 80%’, and the 2 polls above (77% and 79%) show exactly that. Further, even among well-known groups of haters (Tea Party and GOP), the majority STILL supports some accommodation for immigrants that are already here that does not include deportation.

          The Judge is a well-known right-wing hack and immigrant-hater. He knows full well that he has no Constitutional grounds, otherwise he would have cited them in his ruling. It’s a temporary dirty trick, which is what the cowardly GOP Congress was looking for. But it will only server to strengthen Obama’s policy — similar to what happened with Obamacare, remember?

          Reply
          1. James Bowen February 23, 2015

            Polls are not reliable. angelsinca showed you some polls that say otherwise. Give me some other evidence outside of polls. If what you are saying is true, that should not be a problem.

            Why do you say this about this judge? I have seen nothing to indicate that. He clearly thinks there are Constitutional issues with this executive action, but he has not had time to fully review it yet.

            Reply
          2. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            Nonsense. The polls linked by angelsinca showed the same overwhelming SUPPORT for accommodating undocumented immigrants. Apparently neither of you actually looked at them. Allow me to cite some examples contained in said polls. I’ll start with the very first one: http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

            “Which statement comes closest to your view about how the immigration system should deal with immigrants who are currently living in the U.S. illegally? The immigration system should allow them a way to become citizens provided they meet certain requirements, or allow them to become permanent legal residents but not citizens, or identify and deport them?”

            The latest result to this question had 59% saying immigrants should be granted citizenship, 19% saying they should be granted permanent legal residency, and only 18% saying they should be deported. So that’s 78% who say they should be granted either citizenship or legal resident status versus 18% who say they should be deported. 78% qualifies as ‘almost 80%’.

            “And do you strongly favor, favor, oppose or strongly oppose allowing illegal immigrants who are the parents of children with legal status to stay in the U.S. for three years without being subject to deportation, if they pass a background check and have lived in the country for at least five years?”

            The latest answer to this question was 22% strongly favor letting them stay, 54% favor letting them stay, 13% oppose letting them stay, and 6% strongly oppose letting them stay. That’s 76% who support letting them stay versus 19% who oppose. 76% qualifies as ‘almost 80%’.

            Do I need to go on? If this is the sort of evidence that disproves my arguments then all I can say is that both of you must be experimenting with hallucinogens.

            Reply
          3. James Bowen February 23, 2015

            Well, this poll does not agree: https://www.numbersusa.com/news/poll-shows-massive-opposition-pres-obamas-executive-amnesties.

            So this brings us back to my point that polls are unreliable and conflicting. Show me evidence outside of polls that the public supports amnesty. Polls do not constitute evidence.

            Reply
          4. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            Are you serious? You’re going to try to pass off a right-wing hack piece as a legitimate poll?

            One doesn’t even have to look beyond the title of the poll to see that it’s nothing but political hackery: “Executive Amnesty”. When even the title of the poll is a blatant lie, nobody is going to take it seriously.

            There is no executive amnesty, and none of the questions are honest, nor do any of them simply ask people about what they support or don’t support with respect to immigration policy. Every question is crafted to elicit a biased and bigoted response. Every question starts out by criticizing President Obama, making inaccurate claims, and advancing false premises. Not a single question simply asks people whether they support allowing undocumented immigrants to work, earn potential citizenship, or be granted legal residency.

            You need to learn that lying and using lying instruments like this right-wing hack-poll demonstrate that your arguments have failed. If you don’t have honest arguments or honest evidence then your posts can’t be taken seriously.

            Reply
          5. James Bowen February 23, 2015

            They are more honest in that they tell it like it is. They call illegal aliens illegal aliens, and they call amnesty amnesty. It is the polls you cite that skew the picture.

            Bottom line, what the polls say depends on who is doing the polling. The next logical step is to look to other indicators like Congressional feedback, Facebook likes, web visitation rates, and comment threads on mainstream news sites. Those indicators reveal a public that, so far as it is paying attention, is almost unified in opposition to amnesty and more immigration.

            Reply
          6. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            Nobody ever offered ‘amnesty’ — Obama included. If you use honest polls then people might take your points seriously. Some ‘spin’ can be expected depending on the people creating the poll, but that last one you presented went far beyond ‘spin’ to be outright political hackery and blatant lying.

            If you want to use polls then use credible ones that at least make some attempt to get real opinions and not polls that present lies and bigoted premises from the onset. If you can’t find an honest poll to use then maybe you really should stick to tweets and YouTube videos.

            Reply
          7. James Bowen February 24, 2015

            This action of the President’s, and the Senate bill that failed, constitute amnesty. I do not consider accuracy to be spin, and it is the opposite of lying. This poll is far more honest and credible than polls that use phrases such as “comprehensive immigration reform” or “pay fines, back taxes, learn English” blah blah blah.

            Nonetheless, I maintain that polls are unreliable, including polls that support my arguments. It makes sense to look to other indicators such as Facebook likes and web traffic, and with those indicators it isn’t even a contest–the anti-amnesty side outnumbers the pro-amnesty side by at least an order of magnitude.

            Reply
          8. James Bagley February 25, 2015

            Neither the Senate bill of 2013, nor Obama’s recent executive action enacted ‘amnesty’. The Senate bill provided a lengthy path to citizenship that required immigrants to meet many different requirements, and I believe the process took up to 13 years to complete. The President’s executive action allows for a temporary reprieve through de-prioritizing deportation for immigrants who are already here, working, and/or have family members who are US citizens. Amnesty means completely forgiving past crimes, and neither of these do anything of the sort.

            Your last poll, which was nothing more than propaganda, is indeed inaccurate. Polling is not an exact science, and results always vary, but polling is a valid and useful tool if it’s used properly. Being honest would be part of using polls properly.

            Lying about ‘amnesty’ when there is nothing of the sort involved is just another obvious dog whistle.Public lies and distortion are a favorite tool for bigots, racists, Tea Party members and other miscreants. Lying means that they realize their views and beliefs are not supported by most people, and their only hope of getting their hateful measures passed is through deceit or other trickery.

            Claiming that a bigoted, biased, and dis-informational poll that only had one possible outcome is ‘accurate’ is lying. So by lying you telegraph that you know full well your hateful wishes do not have the support of most Americans. Counting tweets as your source of facts is completely ridiculous, of course, but it is preferable to lying. Americans support Obama’s policy goals by a wide margin, and a billion tweets by angry bigots won’t change the facts.

            Reply
          9. James Bowen February 25, 2015

            Amnesties can be conditional. In fact, they often are. S.744 was an amnesty in every sense of the work, and so are the recent executive actions. They not only overlook past crimes and violations, they actually reward illegals with the objective of their crimes–work permits.

            According to what you have said yourself, this poll was a lot more honest about these amnesties than the polls you cite. They tell it like it is.

            Please quit saying I am counting tweets as evidence. I have done no such thing. I have provided evidence outside of polls that a lot more Americans oppose amnesty and looser immigration than support it. You have failed to produce the opposite.

            Reply
          10. James Bagley February 25, 2015

            Yes, amnesties can be conditional, but they are never temporary. There are no ‘rewards’ offered for crimes, so you are once again lying. You can only consider the possibility of earned citizenship a ‘reward’ for crime if you are a bigot trying to sound a racist dog whistle. That’s exactly what this kind of talk is, and Americans despise this type of behavior.

            The only ‘rewards’ that I know of for crime would be rewarding European illegal immigrants from the colonial period for the massive crime spree that they perpetuated. That means that you were rewarded for the crimes of your family. So now that this has been pointed out to you, you can repent, apologize to real Americans, and find a boat in which to deport yourself back to your family’s European homeland to atone for your crimes.

            It doesn’t matter how many tweets you count or how many YouTube views you reference — real Americans support Obama’s policy goals by almost 80%. With every additional lie that you tell, and every bigoted tweet that you retweet — you are telling Americans that you know they oppose your views but that you don’t have enough respect for them to just be honest.

            Reply
          11. James Bowen February 25, 2015

            I have shown you strong indications that a lot more Americans oppose Obama’s immigration goals than support them. You, on the other hand, have failed to back your 80% figure up with any reliable evidence. The indications I presented to you did not include tweets or YouTube videos.

            Giving a work permit to an illegal alien is rewarding him/her with the objective of their violations and crimes, therefore it is an amnesty. Supposedly it is temporary, but I’m pretty sure they don’t really intend it to be.

            Reply
          12. James Bagley February 26, 2015

            You’ve shown me nothing of the sort. Other than one bigoted right-wing hack poll that didn’t ask about peoples immigration views at all, the only thing you’ve done is CLAIM that you’ve seen more immigrant-hating tweets and YouTube videos than tweets and videos from normal people. Aside from being a totally preposterous source of proof (about anything), you haven’t actually shown anything at all.

            Temporary work permits aren’t amnesty. Amnesty is a permanent official pardon for crimes. Work permits aren’t amnesty. Your repeated attempts to CLAIM immigrants have committed crimes is the same type of deceitful posturing you do with respect to the title ‘Native American’ except in reverse. You attempt claim that you are a ‘Native American’ because it infuriates you that you aren’t. Likewise you claim that today’s immigrants are guilty of crimes because you are embarrassed over the fact that that’s exactly the case with European immigrants like you and your family.

            I showed you real and credible polls on the subject, and the results of polling on this topic has been fairly consistent for a few years now. There are plenty of credible polls out there that fall into this category, and that’s because Americans support providing some form of relief and a chance to earn the right to live and work in America. They oppose just deporting people who have lived here for years, have jobs and family, and contribute to this society.

            Reply
          13. James Bowen February 26, 2015

            I never said anything about YouTube videos or tweets, so please stop putting words into my mouth. I have shown you the the restrictionist groups get more web visitors, more likes on Facebook, and totally dominate feedback to Congress; and it is not just a little more, it is at least an order of magnitude more. That is pretty powerful evidence as to where the American people lean on this issue. Face it, the pro-amnesty movement is largely an astroturf movement that is really pushed by big business that wants cheap labor, as well as “progressive” groups that want cheap votes.

            Amnesties can be temporary and provisional. Giving them a work permit, the objective of their crimes, is to overlook their crimes. That is amnesty. And yes, they do commit crimes. If they hold a payroll job, as most of them are believed to, it is all but certain that they have committed Federal felonies relating to SSN theft/fraud.

            The poll I showed you is every bit as credible as the polls you talk about. When one looks beyond the polls, there is almost no support for legalizing illegals whatsoever, as I have shown you.

            Reply
          14. James Bagley February 26, 2015

            It proves nothing except that bigoted, immigrant-hating European immigrants are disgruntled. And they should be, because Americans don’t support bigoted hate. So they will remain disgruntled just like all of the haters before them, but Americans — who are mostly immigrants — will never become immigrant-hating bigots.

            Again for the ‘big business’ argument: Proof please, and no tweets.

            Amnesties are permanent. People are never unpardoned. Cite one example in all of history where somebody was pardoned and then unpardoned. You have no proof of crimes. Again, without any YouTube links — cite your proof that immigrants are committing federal felonies.

            The poll you cited was most certainly not credible. It contained outright lies, bigoted and partisan rhetoric, false premises, and the questions were written to reference Obama so that they would elicit racist and bigoted hate reactions. You are flat out lying when you say this poll is credible. When people lie during a debate, it’s because they know they cannot win with the truth.

            Reply
          15. James Bowen February 27, 2015

            No, it shows that there is far more interest in the restrictionist message than the open borders message.

            Mark Zuckerburg, the Koch Brothers, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Bill Gates, Sheldon Adelson, and Grover Norquist are just a few examples of the big business titans and shills who are pushing for amnesty and more immigration. I think you can find many more on at this link: http://immigrationimpact.com/2014/02/28/more-than-600-businesses-urge-congress-to-act-on-immigration-reform/.

            An amnesty is not necessarily a pardon, and amnesties can be temporary. The word amnesty literally means the act of forgetting, and to give illegals work permits which they are not legally entitled to certainly meets this definition.

            All new hires are required to fill out I9 forms with their social security number. Most illegal aliens are thought to work in payroll jobs, which means that they either used a false or stolen SSN on those forms. That is a Federal felony.

            You only say this poll is not credible because it does not say what you want it to. Unlike the polls you cite, it is backed up by other data such as Congressional feedback.

            Reply
          16. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            More lying, I see. What you are calling ‘big business’ and claiming to be pro-amnesty are simply Americans who support immigration reform. There may be some people in there who want cheap labor, but if there is they are just mistakenly in the pro-American group. It’s the anti-American bigoted, hateful, lying about amnesty, counting tweets and YouTube views European immigrant group that cheats, lies and abuses immigrant labor. So really all you are doing is complaining that some of your immigrant-hating European immigrant buddies aren’t smart enough to align themselves with other hateful Europeans. Maybe they just like the company better: Most Americans despise anti-American European immigrants who lie, cheat, and hate on other immigrants — no matter how many YouTube views they happen to get.

            Amnesty = pardon. That’s the definition, so look it up. Amnesty (pardons) is never temporary. Cite one example in all of history where somebody was pardoned (given amnesty) and then was unpardoned.

            You are only making unproven claims about immigrants committing crimes. Just because your immigrant group committed the most crimes in history doesn’t mean that today’s immigrants do. Cite real evidence, and again — no tweets, Facebook likes, or YouTube videos.

            The poll you cited was partisan garbage with zero credibility. By using it you willingly are spreading lies. Why would you do that to Americans? Because you hate Americans, of course. Most Americans are either immigrants or recent descendants of immigrants — like you. So you are a American-hating, immigrant-hating, lying, tweet-counting, YouTube watching European who hates immigrants even though you yourself are one, and you hate everything that doesn’t align with your European hate. Why don’t you just go back across the pond and hate Americans from afar?

            Reply
          17. James Bowen February 27, 2015

            If they are given work permits, their crimes are overlooked and they are rewarded with the objective of their lawbreaking. That is amnesty, temporary or not.

            Per the IRCA of 1986, all new hires are required to submit their SSN’s on the I9 form. It is estimated that 7-8 million illegals work in payroll jobs. Therefore, it is all but certain they have committed felonies by using false or stolen SSN’s. The only way they couldn’t have is if the employer did not have them fill out the I9, which is unlikely given how much plausible deniability there is in the I9 system.

            You can’t be serious about calling Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, the Koch Brothers, the Chamber of Commerce, etc. “ordinary Americans”. This is big business. They are the ones who are pushing for more immigration. Outside of them, there is almost no popular support whatsoever for more immigration.

            Reply
          18. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            There is no such thing as temporary amnesty — they are either pardoned or they aren’t. Work permits are not an objective of anything, and there are no crimes involved. So you are just lying, there is no ‘reward’ and there is no crime.

            Again — PROOF. You have no proof of anyone committing crimes. Millions of people work for cash. Others got their SSN when they were in a ‘legal’ status, and their visa just ran out. So once again — provide proof that crimes are being committed (without counting tweets) or just stop lying.

            I didn’t call anyone ‘ordinary’. Bill Gates is American, and he supports American traditions and values. You are angry because Americans do not support your anti-American hate. Americans are mostly immigrants, so they support immigration. Figuring that out isn’t rocket science and you don’t need to watch any YouTube videos to understand it.

            Reply
          19. James Bowen February 27, 2015

            They are not legally allowed to work, yet they are being given work permits. That is effectively amnesty, temporary or not.

            If an illegal alien is working a payroll job, they are a felon, period. Even the ones who were issued valid SSN’s are committing felonies if they continue to use it after their visa has expired since it is no longer valid. It is estimated that some 8 million illegals are in the U.S. labor force (source: http://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R40002.pdf).

            You think displacing American workers is an American tradition?

            Reply
          20. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            When you use the term amnesty you are lying. You should stop lying, because it makes your arguments DOA. When somebody needs to lie in order to debate, that means that they have lost. At least if you are truthful you have a chance to win the argument, however small.

            Many people who are not US citizens can legally work in the United States without doing anything. All the ‘work permit’ (employment authorization) does is provide a piece of paper that they can hand to employers, who are required to look for it absence proof of US citizenship. It is impossible to consider a document that is primarily needed by employers as a ‘reward’ for crime.

            The ability to work is a natural human right. Governments cannot grant such a right — all they can do is prohibit it in cases where it is in the interest of the public and for specific reasons. It’s not like people in the US need the government’s permission to work — they don’t. It’s more like the US government (executive branch) has the right to require employers to ask for documents that identify a person’s citizenship status as part of a larger effort to control immigration. States do not have this right; individuals like James Bowen do not have this right. The executive branch of the government is the only party with this right, and they also have the right to apply is as they see fit. If they choose not to prohibit somebody to work then their ability to work is automatic.

            Plenty of immigrants have social security numbers, so your claims about federal felonies are outright lies. SSNs aren’t required for employment, rather, they are simply used for payroll purposes. Many employers do not use them. In addition to this, having a SSN after your EAD expires is not a felony. People don’t have to stop working the second their EAD expires — that’s nonsense. EADs expire all the time, and they simply get extended or renewed at some point.

            There are so many different classifications of non-citizens in this country at any one time it is just mind-boggling. Many do not require a work permit, some do. Many will never need a SSN, many will. Statuses change, rules are confusing, and the entire system is so broken that it’s hard to tell who is following all of the rules at any given time.

            Competing with American workers is an American tradition, yes. Immigrants don’t displace American workers. Displacing an American worker would mean that an immigrant comes and finds a job he wants that is currently held by an American, and then pushes the American out of that job and takes it. That NEVER happens. Immigrants find OPEN jobs and compete for them like anyone else. Often they will find OPEN jobs that Americans simply do not want because the work is too hard and the pay is too little.

            Reply
          21. James Bowen February 28, 2015

            These executive actions overlook their illegal activity and give them the objective of their lawbreaking–jobs. That is amnesty (i.e. forgetting illegal activity) in every sense of the word.

            Aliens do not have the right to work in the U.S. without a work permit. In fact, it has been illegal for them to do so since 1986.

            Just because the document satisfied the employer does not absolve the illegal alien of crimes he/she committed. All new hires are required to submit their SSN on the I-9 from, and It is a Federal felony to present a false or stolen SSN to on this form, regardless of whether the employer catches it or not. Yes, it is also possible that the employer did not collect the I-9 information, but that is unlikely given how much plausible deniability there is in the I-9 process. All an employer has
            to do is attest to the best of their ability that the documents are valid. That is a problem that makes the I-9 system as it currently exists a joke but it could be corrected by mandatory E-Verify and SSN-NoMatching. In the meantime, however, it does not absolve illegal aliens of document felonies related to I-9.

            Immigrants are not inherently harder working that natives. They are human, they are not magic. What they are willing to do is work for less that natives, which is why employers want them. Depressing wages, stealing jobs, and causing unsustainable population growth does not boost the economy, at least not for most of us. Americans are willing to do any job, no matter how hard they have to work, so long as the pay is worth their time and effort. Just look at coal miners in West Virginia. Do you think it is all right for employers to work people long hours in unsafe conditions for peanuts? That is not a very progressive attitude if you do.

            Reply
  2. jmprint February 21, 2015

    The republicans just keep wasting money on dead end lawsuits.

    Reply
    1. angelsinca February 21, 2015

      This administration just keeps wasting everyone’s time by making its own rules that bypass consensus.

      Reply
      1. jmprint February 21, 2015

        Consensus of the mentally disturbed, sure why not.

        Reply
        1. angelsinca February 21, 2015

          Sure, “they” are all crazy. Got it.

          Reply
      2. James Bagley February 22, 2015

        A bigoted minority of European immigrants who hate other immigrants isn’t exactly a ‘consensus’. Almost 80% of Americans support Obama’s immigration goals, and that makes sense: America is mostly a country of immigrants.

        Reply
        1. angelsinca February 22, 2015

          For months, all polls show most Americans (60-67%) do not support Obama’s amnesty plans. Even immigrants are speaking out against it. Where does the 80% figure come from?

          Not sure that anyone really knows what Obama’s immigration goals are exactly, from securing the border to rounding up dangerous illegals to implementing existing immigration law. But, that is another clear and present issue.

          Reply
          1. James Bagley February 22, 2015

            Right off the bat I can see that you don’t have an honest point to make: Obama hasn’t proposed any amnesty programs. So I guess it would be downright foolish to ask you to cite your ‘polls’ on an nonexistent program, right?

            Perhaps there was such a poll taken where a right-wing hack asked about something that doesn’t even exist, but what possible use would anyone have for such a poll other than disinformation?

            Reply
          2. angelsinca February 22, 2015

            Where does your 80% ‘support for Obama immigration goals’ stat come from?
            An accusation of dishonesty doesn’t answer the question

            The 60-67% disapproval I cited can be found in several places:
            http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm
            http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/07/poll-shows-huge-opposition-to-oval-office-amnesty/
            http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

            Reply
          3. James Bowen February 22, 2015

            angelsinca, James Bagley lives in a fantasy world. He is repeatedly insistent on statements that he has no evidence for and have no basis in reality.

            Reply
          4. James Bagley February 22, 2015

            This coming from a drooling immigrant-hating European immigrant who resorts to counting tweets and Facebook like for his ‘proof’? Americans support immigration no matter how much you hate your fellow immigrants, and that’s a fact. It makes sense, because America is, after all, a country of immigrants, and most Americans aren’t hypocritical and hateful enough to both BE an immigrant and HATE immigrants. Such people are thankfully only a selfish, hateful minority.

            Reply
          5. James Bowen February 23, 2015

            I never said anything about tweets, and Facebook likes, among the other things I have mentioned, is a lot more than you have as far as evidence is concerned.

            Reply
          6. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            Nonsense — you need to stop lying in public. When you need to resort to lies it proves that you know your arguments are without merit.

            I posted 2 polls earlier that show 77% and 79% (respectively) of Americans support the same immigration policy as Obama. It only took me about 20 seconds to find these, and there are literally dozens of such polls with similar results.

            Here are the links again, in case you’d like to refresh your memory on what you are lying about:

            http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpublicreligion.org%2Fsite%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2FFinal-Immigration-Survey.pdf&ei=0lzqVNGLB4uYgwSIz4EQ&usg=AFQjCNFMUnHkKwmlQRwvJJ2_1y8pYRuB6w

            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-post-shutdown-congress-disapproval-at-all-time-high/

            I’ve also once again attached a chart that shows how support for policies like Obama’s breaks down by political party. For God’s sake — even a majority of the bitter, world-hating Tea Party supports the same policies as Obama.

            In fact, ALL of the polls I’ve seen on this subject in recent years have shown that a majority of Americans support relief for undocumented immigrants that does not include deportation. You cite ridiculous things like tweets and web traffic because you know full well what I’m saying is true. What’s your next ridiculous ‘proof’ going to be — YouTube videos?

            Reply
          7. James Bowen February 23, 2015

            This polls conflicts: https://www.numbersusa.com/news/poll-shows-massive-opposition-pres-obamas-executive-amnesties.

            Polls are unreliable and do not constitute evidence. Show me something else besides polls. After all, if so many people support amnesty, that shouldn’t be hard to do, should it?

            Reply
          8. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            You should be ashamed of yourself for stooping down to the level of using a lying hack-poll and not a legitimate one. This shows that you don’t believe your own arguments, because if you did you wouldn’t have to lie or use lying hack-tricks.

            Nobody was ever talking about ‘amnesty’. Obama never offered ‘amnesty’. Temporary reprieves from deportation and being allowed to work is not ‘amnesty’.

            You were better off using tweets for your ‘proof’. It was utterly ridiculous, of course, but at least it wasn’t blatant lying.

            Reply
          9. James Bowen February 24, 2015

            Calling it amnesty is not a lie. Matter of fact, it is as honest as it gets. What the President’s orders do is grant an ostensibly temporary amnesty.

            Nonetheless, polls are unreliable, including those that back up my point of view. It makes sense to look at other indicators too, and you have seen already how those indicators stack up.

            Reply
          10. James Bagley February 25, 2015

            Amnesty is not temporary. Amnesty is an official pardon. Since the President’s executive action does nothing of the sort, that means you are either a) mistaken, or b) lying. Which is it?

            You referenced a poll that was nothing more than right-wing propaganda, and didn’t even make an attempt to elicit honest results. I referenced polls that were credible. I understand why you did this: You know full well that there are no honest polls that show what you like, because bigoted hate doesn’t poll well among Americans. So you resorted to choosing a lying poll created by right-wing hacks, and that makes you complicit in their lying.

            Americans support the goals of Obama’s executive action by almost 80%. That’s a fact, and all the lying in the world won’t change it.

            Reply
          11. James Bowen February 25, 2015

            Amnesty can be temporary. Given that this executive actions rewards illegals with the objective of their crimes, work permits, it is effectively more than a pardon.

            The poll I referenced, by your own admission, called a spade a spade. In calling it amnesty, it was honest about what is going on, and low and behold the results were not to your liking.

            Nonetheless, polls are unreliable. You still have not showed me any evidence that Americans support this. Meanwhile, I have shown you mountains of evidence that they don’t. Really, why can’t America’s Voice, which has a lot more money than NumbersUSA, get even 1/20th of the likes NumbersUSA has on Facebook?

            Reply
          12. James Bagley February 25, 2015

            Pardons are never temporary, and that’s exactly what amnesty means. There is no amnesty involved in either the President’s executive action or the Senate bill that was opposed by immigrant-hating European immigrants last year. Calling something ‘amnesty’ when it isn’t is lying, and lying proves that you yourself know that your hateful views do not have the support of Americans.

            The poll you referenced was a lying hack-job. Anyone can find a partisan hack reference, but to have some sort of credibility you need to find polls that are credible themselves. There are plenty of credible polls by reputable organizations out there, but of course they all show that Americans support Obama’s immigration goals by almost 80%. This is exactly why you try to downplay polls, and once again it shows that you know your claims are false.

            If you are calling the type of evidence you cited as ‘mountains’ of evidence, then the proper term to use would be more along the lines of ‘piles’. Real polling organizations don’t rely on Facebook ‘likes’, tweets, or YouTube videos. Maybe you should just reference your own posts as evidence that Americans are all bigoted, immigrant-hating European immigrants, then you could log on under thousands of different phony accounts and up-vote your own posts. That would be a least as reliable and credible as counting tweets.

            Reply
          13. James Bowen February 25, 2015

            This overlooks their lawbreaking and crimes and given them a work permit. That is amnesty if there ever was such a thing.

            The poll I referenced is honest about what is going on. It is the polls you cite that use language to disguise or downplay the fact that these people are lawbreakers who are stealing jobs and depressing wages. Even the polls don’t support your 80% statement when direct language is used.

            Tell me why La Raza or America’s Voice can’t get more Facebook likes than NumbersUSA, especially when they are so much richer. All such indicators say that the restrictionist message is far, far more popular than the expansionist message. I never said anything about tweets or YouTube videos either, so please stop putting words into my mouth.

            Reply
          14. James Bagley February 26, 2015

            Utter nonsense. Work permits have nothing to do with crime, which is just an unproven accusation on your part anyway. You have no proof that any given immigrant committed any crime, and work permits and minor violations are unrelated. You might have parking tickets (a similar level of severity to overstaying a visa, for example) and yet still be given a driver license, and the fact that you received a license isn’t a ‘reward’ for your parking tickets. That’s an absurd claim.

            The poll you referenced is totally dishonest and partisan. It doesn’t ask any questions that aren’t already preloaded with criticisms of Obama and erroneous claims. Futher, they don’t have any questions that just ask about what peole feel should be done with respect to immigrants. Obama isn’t an immigrant, so an honest poll doesn’t need to reference him at all, and in fact shouldn’t unless the goals is to learn something about Obama. When the claim is to show what Americans think about immigrants, Obama shouldn’t even be included in the question.

            So by using lying right-wing hack polls you yourself become a party to the lying. Only people who already know their arguments are false need to resort to lying.

            If pro-immigration groups are wealthier than immigrant-hating European immigrant groups, then a case could be made that people voted with their wallets and that proves they favor pro-immigration. That indirect type of claim is exactly what you are trying to pass off as proof, and you only do it because real proof isn’t available. Why isn’t real proof available that Americans are anti-immigrant bigots? Because they aren’t — that’s why.

            Quit claiming that asinine methods like counting tweets and Facebook likes are proof of anything. Credible organizations have never watched YouTube videos to determine what Americans think. The reason they don’t is because it’s just plain ridiculous.

            Reply
          15. James Bowen February 26, 2015

            Getting a speeding ticket does not automatically disqualify one from getting a driver’s license. Being an illegal alien, however, by definition means they are not authorized to work. Most illegal aliens come here for jobs, and in giving them a work permit, they are being rewarded with the objective of their crimes and effectively being given amnesty. Yes, they do commit crimes. If they are working in a payroll job (as most of them are believed to be doing), it is all but certain they have committed Federal felonies relating to SSN theft/fraud.

            The poll, if anything, used soft language that wasn’t fully honest about the status of these people. It called them “undocumented immigrants” as opposed to the more factual term illegal aliens. Therefore, if there was dishonesty in this poll, it was dishonesty on behalf of the pro-amnesty side.

            Americans more willing to open their pocketbooks for the pro-amnesty side–you are not really that naive, are you? It is very obvious that, without much of a membership base to speak of, they are getting their money from big business donors. Meanwhile, poorer groups that oppose more immigration get more than 20 times the membership. That is very strong evidence that Americans do not support amnesty and more immigration.

            I never said anything about YouTube, so please don’t put words into my mouth.

            Reply
          16. James Bagley February 26, 2015

            In fact, getting a speeding ticket can very well disqualify somebody from getting a driver’s license. When such a thing happens you can rightly call it punishment for driving (and speeding, at that) without a license. But if the prosecutor decides not to charge you, or charges you with a lesser offense — which often happens — you will probably be able to get a license if you otherwise meet the requirements. This doesn’t make it a ‘reward’ — that’s just ridiculous. It just means that you were able to do what you would otherwise have been able to do anyway because the prosecutor chose not to prosecute. This is similar to what Obama has done.

            there are literally dozens of polls out there from the last 2 years that all show the same thing: Americans support the same immigration goals as Obama by almost 80%. It hasn’t changed much in the last few years. The terms ‘illegal alien’ and ‘undocumented immigrant’ are interchangeable. The poll you referenced contained outright lies and biased attacks and phrasing.

            You say that pro-immigration groups are getting their money from big business donors? Proof, please — and please don’t send me any tweets, Facebook stats or YouTube links.

            Membership in a bigot-club doesn’t prove anything except what we already know — there are quite a few bigots out there. But bigoted, immigrant-hating European immigrants are vastly outnumbered by decent Americans. The club they belong to is called the USA and it’s membership dwarfs your hate club, your tweet counts and even your YouTube view counts.

            YouTube, Facebook, Twitter — what’s the difference? Using any of them for proof of anything is ridiculous, and proves that you know your arguments are fatally flawed.

            Reply
          17. James Bowen February 27, 2015

            An ordinary speeding ticket does not disqualify one from a license. Not paying the ticket or something on top of it (such as reckless driving) might, but a speeding ticket in and of itself does not. These aliens are explicitly forbidden by current law from having work permits. This order therefore conflicts with current law.

            I have shown you that polls are contradictory. The ones which use more straightforward language, like illegal alien and amnesty, reveal large opposition. That is backed up by web traffic, Facebook likes, and Congressional feedback. You have nothing to back your polls up.

            Mark Zuckerburg founded forward.us to push for more immigration. The Chamber of Commerce spends more on lobbying Congress than any other group, and more immigration is their biggest priority. Rupert Murdoch and Michael Bloomberg founded Partnership for a New American Economy to lobby for more immigration. Grover Norquist, a shill for big business, often lobbies Congress for more immigration. You can probably learn more about what big businesses are involved by looking at the letter discussed here: http://immigrationimpact.com/2014/02/28/more-than-600-businesses-urge-congress-to-act-on-immigration-reform/.

            Reply
          18. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            Baloney. An ordinary speeding ticket for an unlicensed driver also proves that they were driving without a license. So it’s very similar to undocumented entry or just overstaying a visa — just a process where a person fulfills requirements and receives a permission. But the point was that if the prosecutor decides not to prosecute, or instead charges with a lesser offense, the person will still be able to apply and receive a license if they meet the requirements. But it’s not a ‘reward’ for speeding if they do so. Same thing for undocumented entry. Being given a work permit isn’t a ‘reward’ — it’s totally separate. And if the prosecutor (executive branch) decides not to prosecute the individual, then they can still get a work permit if they otherwise meet the requirements.

            You didn’t show me a poll. What you offered was anti-American propaganda. You tell another lie every time you even reference it as a poll — it isn’t.

            Immigration is beneficial to America’s economy, and America is mostly an immigrant country. Americans support immigration. It’s not surprising that Americans support a long-time tradition of immigration. You, on the other hand, oppose immigration because you are a hateful European. Amnesty and immigration reform are not the same thing. You are simply opposing American values and tradition, and then making up lies to attempt to conceal the fact that you are un-American. Nobody is fooled.

            Reply
          19. James Bowen February 27, 2015

            Illegals are not entitled to work permits under current law, period, regardless of whether they are targeted for enforcement actions or not. Therefore, they are in fact being rewarded for illegal activity. A person who gets a speeding ticket is not necessary disqualified from keeping a driver’s license.

            What I showed you was a poll. Just because you say it isn’t a poll does not mean it is not.

            Immigration, at current levels, is economically devastating to America. It depresses wages and puts greater strain on finite natural resources. The only ones who it benefits, other than the immigrants themselves, are their employers. The rest of us are stuck with the bill.

            Reply
          20. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            People can’t keep driver licenses if they don’t have them. That’s what the term ‘unlicensed driver’ means. Work permits are not ‘rewards’ for anything other than applying for them and fulfilling the requirements, and you haven’t proven that any crimes were ever committed. That means you are just lying.

            What you call a poll was the worst piece of partisan propaganda that I’ve ever seen. There is no credibility there at all, and by using it as a reference you are lying.

            Immigration has always been a beneficial boost to the American economy. It raises wages, creates jobs, and improves the living standard for all Americans. Most Americans are immigrants or recent descendants of immigrants, so if you oppose immigrants and immigration you oppose Americans and America.

            Reply
          21. James Bowen February 27, 2015

            That’s not what I was talking about. To illegals, work permits are rewards. If they are in a payroll job, as an estimated 8 million are, that is proof that they are felons. They could not have gotten that job otherwise.

            It was a poll, as credible as any other poll, whether you like it or not.

            Immigration does not raise wages. To say that is contrary to the law of supply and demand. It also takes more jobs than it creates. Immigrants are not magical. They are not inherently better at creating jobs than Americans. And considering that their presence increases our consumption of non-renewable natural resources and contributes heavily to unsustainable population growth, they reduce our standard of living.

            Reply
          22. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            All it proves is that you are lying. Work permits are documents required by most employers absent proof of citizenship. They do not confer the right to work — that is automatic. All they do is tell the employer that the federal government does not prohibit a particular non-citizen from working.

            If non-citizens are currently holding a job, all it proves is either a) they presented some document to the employer that satisfied the employer, or b) the EMPLOYER broke the law. It doesn’t prove anything at all about the worker except that they are employed and paying taxes that support 2nd and 3rd generation European immigrants who are sitting on their lazy butts leeching while complaining about other immigrants online.

            Immigration is one of the best ways to boost the economy. New immigrants are harder working people than many European immigrants. They do not cheat like some Europeans and they do not spend their time hating on other people. They are hungry for success and innovative. They are just all-around better people, and they do not drain the economy like a great many 2nd and 3rd generation Europeans. I don’t blame employers if they’d rather hire immigrants over 2nd and 3rd generation European immigrants — most people would.

            Reply
          23. James Bowen February 28, 2015

            Aliens do not have the right to work in the U.S. without a work permit. In fact, it has been illegal for them to do so since 1986.

            Just because the document satisfied the employer does not absolve the illegal alien of crimes he/she committed. It is a Federal felony to present a false or stolen SSN to an employer, regardless of whether the employer catches it or not. Yes, it is also possible that the employer did not collect the I-9 information, but that is unlikely given how much plausible deniability there is in the I-9 process. All an employer has to do is attest to the best of their ability that the documents are valid. That is a problem that makes the I-9 system as it currently exists a joke but it could be corrected by mandatory E-Verify and SSN-No Matching. In the meantime, however, it does not absolve illegal aliens of document felonies related to I-9.

            Immigrants are not inherently harder working that natives. They are human, they are not magic. What they are willing to do is work for less that natives, which is why employers want them. Depressing wages, stealing jobs, and causing unsustainable population growth does not boost the economy, at least not for most of us.

            Reply
          24. James Bagley February 28, 2015

            It is not illegal for anyone to work in the US without a work permit. It is illegal for employers to hire them. Many, many people who are not US citizens can freely live and work in the US without applying for anything at all.

            It is not a crime for anyone to work. Most immigrants get SSNs through a perfectly legal process, and then their status changes. So you are lying — working in the US and being on a company’s payroll proves nothing. You are making unfounded accusations that you can’t prove. Do you know what we call this? We call this ‘lying’.

            All new immigrants work harder than 2nd and 3rd generation European immigrants. We are not talking about natives here — we are talking about European immigrants like you. New immigrants are more industrious, more honest, friendlier, more tolerant of others, and they wash more often so they smell better. They do not cheat like many Europeans. They are not lazy freeloaders who leach off othesr like many European immigrants. In short, they are just better people and more desirable as citizens and neighbors. Employers want to hire them because they are better employees.

            New immigrants boost the US economy, and compensate for the lazy European immigrants who claim to be ‘Native Americans’ when everyone knows they aren’t. 2nd and 3rd generation European immigrants lie incessantly. When European immigrants are caught lying, they do ridiculous things like claim that tweets and YouTube video views prove points that they know are false. European immigrants have the highest crime rate in recorded history, and when they are reminded of this they quickly point to somebody else as if that somehow excuses their crime. It doesn’t.

            Reply
          25. James Bowen March 1, 2015

            If it is illegal to hire them, than it is illegal for them to work. The only way I can think of that they can legally get around this is by being a hunter an gatherer or a subsistence farmer. I don’t think there are any of them that are doing that. If they are on someone’s payroll, they are almost certainly felons.

            Immigrants are not inherently better people than Americans.
            They are just people, no better or worse on average than Americans. Employers want them because they are cheap and docile, not because they are better. If what you are saying is true, why aren’t their nations superior to our own?

            They only boost the economy for the 1%. The rest of us foot the bill. 56% of immigrant households use welfare, so they clearly take more than they put in. Note that I am not saying
            they don’t work hard, they do. What I am saying is that they are paid so low that they constitute a resource deficit, their hard work notwithstanding. See here for more info: http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011.

            Reply
          26. James Bagley March 2, 2015

            Not true. People have a right to work — they don’t need permission from any government. Work permits are part of a larger policy to control immigration, but that larger policy has been broken for years, and it has become so convoluted and slow that nobody can ever be sure if anyone is actually adhering to all the rules.

            New immigrants are inherently better than 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation European immigrants who have become lazy, hateful, and mistakenly sure that they have a superior status as Americans. Employers like new immigrants because they are the opposite of such European immigrants: Not hateful, not lazy, not mistakenly sure that they are superior Americans. Accepting what wages are available and instead relying on hard work to advance is just a part of being a better person/employee.

            You are lying when you say you foot the bill for immigrants. You are lying when you say 56% of immigrant households use welfare. There are no reliable ways to tally any of this, but undocumented immigrants are not eligible for welfare, and you cannot prove your absurd claims. The only argument you have that has any truth to it is bigoted hate — so you should stick with that as your strongest argument.

            Reply
          27. James Bowen March 2, 2015

            Illegal aliens do not have the right to work in the U.S. If they did, the whole point of issuing work permits would be moot. There is nothing broken about our immigration system except for enforcement (which has been sabotaged).

            It makes no sense to say that third world immigrants are inherently superior to native-born Americans. People are people, and if what you are saying is true than why aren’t the nations they are coming from better places to live than ours?

            Why should American workers accept low wages? It takes a certain amount of money to live in this country, and American workers have every right to seek higher wages. Do you think American workers should work for 12 hours a day in unsafe conditions for peanuts? Would you like working under such conditions?

            As far as immigrant welfare is concerned, look at the link I sent you. I did not make this up.

            Reply
          28. James Bagley March 3, 2015

            The right of people to work and support themselves financially is a basic human right. Absent any proof that there is something that legally hinders them, then their right is automatic. If an employer has accepted whatever document they provided, then that’s it. If something in the person’s status changes — like a work permit expiration — that doesn’t make them a felon. That’s just an unfounded accusation on your part because of your hate.

            Second, third, and fourth generation European immigrants are notorious for being hypocritical, bigoted, racist, and lazy as well as spouting ridiculous lies and exaggerations about their own status. Without the 14th Amendment we could deport you today, yet you are completely and ridiculous opposed to the only thing that gives you a right to call yourself American. That particular gall is peculiar to Europeans. I’m not saying that all European immigrants are despicable, selfish, lying bigots and racists — but there sure are more of them than we need. And new immigrants are much better people in all respects.

            Why should anyone accept low wages? They might accept low wages as a way to get their foot in the door, or because they don’t have a better option. There is no reason to expect anyone to work under unsafe conditions, but it’s the racist, bigoted, hateful European immigrants who think that they are superior to everyone else, and they oppose labor laws. So you are hanging out with the wrong crowd to make this argument.

            Reply
          29. James Bowen March 4, 2015

            No, illegal aliens do not have the right to work. They don’t even have the right to be here. Illegal means illegal. If their work permit expires, than theirs is now a false SSN, and using it to obtain a new job is a felony.

            Illegal immigration depresses wages and undermines workplace safety and conditions. That is an inconvenient truth for dogmatists who think of themselves as progressives (I personally am a political moderate who does not identify with any particular political faction, and I am pro-union in principle as well).

            What you are saying is the whole point of the source I sent you. Having anchor babies is a backdoor into our welfare system. Bottom line, immigrant households are disproportionately far larger users of welfare than native-born households. This is not saying that immigrants are lazy. It is simply saying that, in spite of their hard work, the money they make is so little that they cannot afford the cost of living in this country.

            If immigrants are so much better and brighter than Americans, why does the increased immigration since 1970 coincide with an overall decline of conditions in this country?

            Reply
          30. James Bagley March 4, 2015

            I agree that immigrants are a drain on the economy, but not new immigrants. It’s the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation European immigrants who have become lazy, selfish, bigoted, and hateful. It would be a very good deal to deport all of those immigrants and give the new immigrants their place in America.

            You have no proof that anyone is committing a felony, and claiming that somebody is a felon without their conviction in a court of law is anti-American. You should go back to Slovakia or wherever your family came from, because you appear to hate both American principles and American law.

            Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for welfare, so claiming that they are abusing the system is a bald-faced lie. If you are saying that Americans use welfare — including European anchor babies whose families came here a few generations back — I could agree.

            Since 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation European immigrants and anchor babies are the real problem, when do you think we should start deporting them?

            Reply
          31. James Bowen March 5, 2015

            You are right, I cannot prove with certainty that any specific illegal alien has committed a felony, especially considering that I don’t even have a specific example to examine. What I can say, however, is that if an illegal alien is on payroll (as most of them are believed to be), than there are one of two possibilities. The first is that they committed a Felony in the form of SSN theft/fraud, or the second is that the employer did not have them submit an I-9. The latter is highly unlikely given that an employer is basically covered when it comes to legal liability if they have their employees fill out I-9’s. Draw your own conclusions. A foul is still a foul, whether the ref sees it or not.

            I know that illegal aliens are ineligible for welfare (considering that they are committed document felonies, it is false to call them undocumented). However, the anchor babies constitute a loophole in that rule. They can get welfare in the name of their anchor babies. Also, that study was not just referring to illegal immigrants. It was referring to legal ones as well, some of whom are directly eligible for welfare.

            Reply
          32. James Bagley March 5, 2015

            Oh, so you were actually talking about American citizens receiving benefits. Shame on you for trying to pass this off as immigrants using welfare. Will you stoop to any low to advance your anti-immigrant hate?

            Reply
          33. James Bowen March 6, 2015

            Immigrants can be citizens, of course. Bottom line, we are importing poverty. No matter how good these people are, no matter how hard they work, and the end of the day having too many workers for the number of jobs available registers as a net loss to the public.

            Reply
          34. James Bagley March 6, 2015

            We imported poverty when we let your family in, but the funny thing about poverty is that it disappears with opportunity — which is the whole reason immigrants come here in the first place. The latest jobs report came out today, and there were almost 300,000 new jobs created in February. This is the biggest job creation streak since the boom days of the Clinton administration. The truth is that bigot-policies decimate the economy, while non-bigot policies create economic expansion. What you advocate is not only despicable but is damaging to the economy too.

            Reply
          35. James Bowen March 7, 2015

            And, including illegal aliens, we imported about that many workers last month too, meaning a net gain of practically zero for beleaguered American workers. This is reflected by continuing stagancy in wages. What I am advocating would make labor more scarce, putting upward pressure on wages and putting more Americans back to work. Do you call that damaging the economy?

            Reply
          36. James Bagley March 7, 2015

            That’s utter nonsense. To ‘import’ workers at the rate of new job creation, we’d have to have an immigration rate well over 3.5 million per year.

            Why do you make up such ridiculous whoppers? You know I’m not going to fall for them, so who are you trying to bamboozle?

            The economy has been drastically improving for quite some time, and that in spite of carrying the dead weight of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants who do nothing to help the economy but instead freeload off the hard-working new immigrants. Wages aren’t stagnant, and no matter how often you lie about it it will not become true.

            It’s a lucky thing that hard working new immigrants boost the economy enough to compensate for freeloading, lazy, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants. If we could just send back the ones that have become lazy and worthless, we would end up with a booming economy and better citizens. Crime, which has always been the main product of bigoted, hateful European immigrants, could be drastically lowered if we deported the sordid deadbeat bigots.

            Don’t get me wrong, not all European immigrants are worthless, so I don’t propose deporting them all. It’s just the ones who forgot that they are immigrants themselves, and hold a mistaken belief that they are real Americans and superior to other immigrants. Those are the ones who should be ejected to make room for the new immigrants, who are better people and make better Americans. This would be the ideal way to address immigration.

            Reply
          37. James Bowen March 9, 2015

            Each year, we take in 1.1 million legal permanent residents, 700,000 guest workers, and perhaps 700,000 illegal aliens. Combine it with the 7 million extralegal work permits this administration has issued, that amounts to about 3.5 million per year.

            The economy is miserable right now. Saying it has improved since 2009 isn’t saying much, and saying wages aren’t stagnant is an outright falsehood. Not even Wall Street denies that. See here for more info: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/.

            Our economy cannot absorb these immigrants without negative repercussions for the nation, no matter how hard they work. I have shown you data that reveals a disproportionately large usage of welfare among immigrants, in spite of their hard work.

            Just remember that America is a nation, a home to a people. It is not a meritocracy for the aspiring masses of the world. Our Constitution requires our government to look out for American citizens first. Immigrating into the U.S. is a privilege bestowed by those who live here, not a right.

            Reply
          38. James Bagley March 9, 2015

            Stop lying. Now you are making up absurd numbers.

            You should be appreciative of the fact that the economy is booming because of new immigrants, and they are compensating for you 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants who have become hateful, lazy, freeloading deadbeats.

            We can absorb far more immigrants than we currently absorb, and even more if we get rid of the useless, freeloading, bigoted and hateful European immigrants who do nothing but whine and squeal their constant hate for other immigrants.

            New immigrants are better people than 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants, who have become hateful, lazy, bigoted liars and deadbeats. We need to get rid of those so that we can let in more new immigrants who are decent people to take their place. There is no reason to allow anti-American European bigots to stay, and they are the dregs of American society.

            Reply
          39. James Bowen March 10, 2015

            I don’t make up numbers. http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ni_fr_2013.pdf Pay special attention to the H visas on page 3. Those are the big guest worker programs. As for permanent legal immigration, see here. http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_lpr_fr_2013.pdf

            The economy is booming? Yeah, next you are going to tell me the world is flat. Most people in this country would wonder what you are smoking after saying that.

            No, we cannot absorb more immigrants. We can indefinitely sustain 150-200 million people, and we have twice that and climbing. The reason why we have twice that and climbing is because of immigration. We need to reduce our population. That could be done gradually by slashing immigration since native fertility is sub-replacement.

            Reply
          40. James Bagley March 10, 2015

            What does guest worker programs have to do with immigration? Having a temporary visa isn’t immigrating. Why don’t you just add in the number of foreign nationals who come to visit Disney Parks while you are at it? It’s just another one of your attempts to exaggerate the truth or just flat-out lie — all because of your hate for other immigrants like you.

            The unemployment rate is 5.5%, and last months job creation was almost 300,000. This economy is healthy and getting healthier every day. But Obama is still black, you say. Why yes, he is, so that means you will contort yourself into painful positions rather than give up your bigoted hate.

            We can absorb more immigrants, and the fact is that when it comes to the subjects of Obama’s temporary enforcement prioritization — they are already here. You may devise any lie you want, count tweets, YouTube views and Pinterest pictures — or perhaps even compare the number of white sheets sold in WalMart vs. black or brown sheets — anything that you feel supports your bigoted hate over reality, however remotely. None of it matters; Americans support the same goals as Obama. Americans are immigrants; you are anti-American.

            We need to deport 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants, because they are lazy, hypocritical, lying, freeloading deadbeats. New immigrants are better people, and they deserve to be here more than hateful, useless European deadbeats.

            Reply
          41. James Bagley February 27, 2015

            The right to work is automatic. Federal prohibitions may inhibit that, but if the federal government does not exert it’s authority to specifically deny employment then anyone can work. Your repeated lies about people committing federal felonies has 3 major flaws:

            1. Working, even without an active work permit is never a felony.
            2. Nobody is guilty of a felony if they aren’t prosecuted and convicted.
            3. In your case the word ‘felony’ means the same thing as ‘bigoted hate’. Governments don’t care about your bigoted hate and it will never be prosecuted.

            Immigration is beneficial to the American economy. Further, immigration is an American tradition, and most Americans are either immigrants or recent descendants of immigrants. New Immigrants work harder than 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants. They are always better people, and they do not go around hating on others. They do not freeload off the system like the European immigrants.

            You have never been stuck with any bill from immigrants — so you can stop your lying. It’s far more likely that you are freeloading off the system and hard-working immigrants are paying for you. Immigration is American — you are anti-American. Anti-immigration haters have no future in a country made up of mostly immigrants.

            Reply
          42. James Bowen February 28, 2015

            Aliens do not have the right to work in the U.S. without a work permit. In fact, it has been illegal for them to do so since 1986.I never said that working without authorization is a felony. I said that submitting a false or stolen SSN is a felony, which is what they have done if they are working on payroll (which an estimated 8 million are).

            Just because the document satisfied the employer does not absolve the illegal alien of crimes he/she committed. It is a Federal felony to present a false or stolen SSN to an employer, regardless of whether the employer catches it or not. Yes, it is also possible that the employer did not collect the I-9 information, but that is unlikely given how much
            plausible deniability there is in the I-9 process. All an employer hasto do is attest to the best of their ability that the documents are valid. That is a problem that makes the I-9 system as it currently exists a joke but it could be corrected by mandatory E-Verify and SSN-No Matching. In the meantime, however, it does not absolve illegal aliens
            of document felonies related to I-9.

            Immigrants are not inherently harder working that natives. They are human, they are not magic. What they are willing to do is work for less that natives, whichis why employers want them. Depressing wages, stealing jobs, and causing unsustainable population growth does not boost the economy, at least not for those of us who aren’t rich.

            Reply
          43. James Bagley February 28, 2015

            You are lying. When new immigrants have EADs that expire it doesn’t mean that they have committed a felony. You have no proof of it because it’s a lie. You are lying because you know that your immigrant-hating European viewpoint is not supported by Americans. Americans do not support your anti-American European immigrant views because most Americans are immigrants but not bigoted haters.

            New immigrants aren’t magic, but they are more honest, harder working, more tolerant of others, and friendlier than 2nd and 3rd generation European immigrants. They are better people, and this is why employers like them. Because they are better people Americans would rather have them as neighbors than European immigrants, who are bigoted, lazy, dishonest, freeloading and somehow never really learned to wash with soap. European immigrants sponge off of the rest of America while wasting all of their time online counting tweets and hating on other immigrants.

            New immigrants boost the economy and help compensate for the drain of the European immigrants. States that are chock-full of bigoted, lying, lazy, freeloading 2nd and 3rd generation European immigrants sponge off the states with new immigrants. Employers would rather hire new immigrants because they are better people and thus make better employees.

            Reply
          44. James Bowen March 1, 2015

            Perhaps not if they remain in the same job (I don’t really know), but they certainly do if they seek another job with an expired work permit. Also, considering that the majority of them do not have a work permit to begin with, it be safely said that the great majority of them have committed Federal felonies relating to SSN theft/fraud.

            Immigrants are not inherently better people than Americans. They are just people, no better or worse on average than Americans. Employers want them because they are cheap and docile, not because they are better. If what you are saying is true, why aren’t their nations superior to our own?

            They only boost the economy for the 1%. The rest of us foot the bill. 56% of immigrant households use welfare, so they clearly take more than they put in. Note that I am not saying they don’t work hard, they do. What I am saying is that they are paid so low that they constitute a resource deficit, their hard work notwithstanding. See here for more info: http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011.

            Reply
          45. James Bagley March 2, 2015

            Saying that a majority of them never had a work permit is just another one of your unfounded accusations. How would you ever prove such a statement? The answer is that you can’t.

            “If what you are saying is true, why aren’t their nations superior to our own?” – James Bowen

            The answer is the same as the reason that America isn’t a immigrant-hating bigot country, even though some people like you hold bigoted hate for immigrants. New immigrants are often the best and brightest, and they are exceptionally motivated. People who are not energetic and highly motivated do not uproot themselves and their families in search of a better future.

            I agree that the 1% profit from immigration, but then the 1% always profit from just about anything. You pay nothing for immigrants, and 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants like you are known to be the biggest users of government benefits in the nation.

            The only honest argument against immigrants is bigoted hate. There is no other honest argument — all of them involve varying levels of lies or exaggerations.

            Reply
          46. James Bowen March 2, 2015

            I could just as easily turn that around and say that you have no proof that they have all had a work permit. That is an absurd comment that defies common sense. Most of them have not had work permits, and the ones who have still commit a felony if they submit an SSN after their work permit has expired.

            New immigrants are no better and brighter than Americans. Our “best and brightest” are every bit as good as theirs, if not better given that our education system traditionally takes a liberal arts approach.

            Immigration is driven by the 1% who seek to profit at the expense of everyone else in the country. And yes, we do pay for them. See the link I sent you.

            Are you willing to give up your job to an immigrant and let 20 of them move in next door to you?

            Reply
          47. James Bagley March 3, 2015

            I don’t need proof. You are the one claiming that felonies are being committed, so you are the one that needs proof. In this country innocence doesn’t require proof, rather, accusations of crime require proof. ‘Innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt’ is an American principle of law — not ‘guilty until proven innocent’. If you can’t understand or appreciate this very basic principle then perhaps you should return to your family’s European homeland where laws are written the way you like or can understand.

            New immigrants are hands-down brighter and more motivated than redneck bigots (aka European immigrant descendants). The best and brightest European immigrants do not spend all their time whining online about other immigrants. In fact, being a ‘bright’ European immigrant means that they are smart enough to realize that being an immigrant themselves it is stupid and hypocritical for them to oppose immigration. Immigrant-haters are bigots and racists, and bigots and racists are psychologically defective and most certainly NOT bright at all.

            Nobody ever gives up their job to an immigrant, so your question is preposterous. As for neighbors, I’d rather have ANYONE else move in next to me than a European redneck bigot.

            Reply
          48. James Bowen March 4, 2015

            I can’t say for sure that they are felons. It is possible that the employer does not have them fill an I-9 out. However, that is very unlikely given that an employer is basically covered w.r.t. the law if they have all employees fill one out. It is therefore very, very likely that any illegal on payroll has committed a felony.

            If immigrants are so much better and brighter than Americans, why does the increased immigration since 1970 coincide with an overall decline of conditions in this country?

            Reply
          49. James Bagley March 4, 2015

            Are you serious? I mean do you actually hear yourself? You are an immigrant, and America had been an immigrant country for centuries now. What ‘overall decline of conditions’ are you talking about? Perhaps you mean the rise of lazy, selfish, bigoted 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation European immigrants?

            BTW, did you see how the Cowardly GOP totally capitulated on the DHS funding bill? I told you — they just can’t do it. They don’t have the will nor the support, and Americans are getting more and more pissed off each and every time they try such antics.

            Americans support the goals of Obama’s immigration policies by almost 80%. It’s a done deal — you’ll see. Immigrant-haters have no future in a country of immigrants.

            Reply
          50. James Bowen March 5, 2015

            As you saw with this injunction, the issue is far from settled. So at this point it is not at all a done deal.

            The GOP has the support to do this. That is the only reason why they made an attempt in the first place. Congress could have done this. You are right, however, that they did not have the will too.

            Show me evidence, besides cooked polls, that 80% of Americans support this? If that is true, why did one Congressman report that of 1800 constituent feedbacks he received on immigration, all but 12 of them opposed amnesty?

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/07/16/tom_cotton_a_key_house_voice_on_immigration_reform_119235.html

            Reply
          51. James Bagley March 5, 2015

            Until you stop lying about amnesty, all of your arguments have lost right out of the gate. There is no amnesty involved hare — NONE. Time for you to stop lying, stand up like a man, and face reality. Americans support the same immigration goals as Obama by almost 80%.

            The GOP can do nothing. They do not have the support in Congress, and they don’t have the support of the people. Every hateful, bigoted attempt like the DHS funding bill takes them further and further away from the White House.

            It’s a done deal — you’ll see.

            Reply
          52. James Bowen March 6, 2015

            It is a lie to deny it is amnesty. Giving work permits to illegal aliens, i.e. overlooking their crimes and violations to give them the objective of their crime is amnesty in every sense of the word.

            Yeah, you said it was a done deal, and then an injunction was issued. The very fact that an injunction is currently in effect says that as of today it is not a done deal.

            You saying that 80% of Americans support this over and over does not make it true. Show evidence. Meanwhile, I have shown you plenty of evidence to the contrary, that the GOP did in fact have popular support for stopping the amnesty.

            Reply
          53. James Bagley March 6, 2015

            You are lying. Amnesty is an official pardon for past crimes. Pardons are permanent, and there is nothing permanent about a 3-year reprieve.

            I understand why you lie, because you know that your bigoted anti-immigrant hate is not supported by Americans. But lying won’t help you, so you may as well give it up.

            The same people who oppose immigration because they are racists and bigots are the very same people who are responsible for low wage increases (stagnation is another lie) and off-shoring — among many other despicable and avoidable evils. That’s European immigrants like your family — otherwise known as rednecks. Everything that has gone wrong about America is because of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation European immigrants also known as redneck bigots, so you have nobody but yourself to blame. It’s high time you straightened up and flew right.

            There is no future in America for bigoted anti-immigrant hate, because America is an immigrant country. GOP bigot-antics will fail. Obama’s policies are a done deal — you’ll see. You’d better get used to the idea right now.

            Reply
          54. James Bowen March 7, 2015

            Amnesty is an action that overlooks past offenses (the word is derived from a Greek word that literally means to forget). Giving them work permits, contrary to existing law, qualifies as this.

            Stagnation is a lie: what planet are you living on? Not even the most foolishly optimistic and bullish economists and corporate cheerleaders deny that. Even that jobs report you referred to in another post mentions stagnant wages.

            It is enjoined, so it is certainly not a done deal at this point. I am still waiting for evidence that Americans support this that would cancel out the mountains of evidence I have shown you to the contrary.

            Reply
          55. James Bagley March 7, 2015

            Amnesty is an official pardon. Pardons are not temporary, such as that which Obama proposed. You are lying about amnesty because you are trying to find a word that will evoke negative emotions. This is a common tactic used by people who wish to do despicable things that are not supported by the public. The net result is that you are trying to cheat your way to hateful policies that Americans do not support. Since you know full well that the truth is not on your side you must resort to lying.

            Stagnation is 0% growth. Cite credible evidence that wages have experienced 0% growth over any recent period of time. You can’t because such evidence doesn’t exist. Because the truth doesn’t support your hateful arguments, you must resort to lies.

            You have shown no evidence at all. Claiming that more hateful bigots tweet about immigration or more YouTube videos are watched at Klan rallies means nothing. You have seen the facts, and Americans support the same immigration goals as Obama by almost 80%. Americans are mostly immigrants, but only a small percentage are despicable and low-class enough to hate other immigrants — which is to say hate other Americans. Anti-American immigrant-hating European immigrants have no future in a country of immigrants — most of whom are decent people and not despicable liars and cheats.

            Reply
          56. James Bowen March 9, 2015

            Amnesties are official acts of forgetfulness regarding lawbreaking. Giving work permits to illegal aliens who are not allowed to have them under the law certainly qualifies. This not lying, it is in fact telling the truth.

            A lot more Americans oppose this than support this. I have shown you plenty of evidence to that effect, most recently

            with that article that revealed one member of Congress whose constituent feedback was well over 99% in opposition to legalization. On the contrary, you have shown me know evidence outside of push polls that use dishonest and misleading language to the contrary.

            With respect to inflation, average wages have been roughly stagnant since 1973. See here: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/.

            Reply
          57. James Bagley March 9, 2015

            Somebody should give you amnesty for all of your lying.

            Amnesty is not ‘forgetfulness’. Amnesty is an official, permanent pardon. There is no amnesty involved in anything Obama did, but you are lying about it because you think that by doing so you can inflame bigoted hate. The problem with that is that there aren’t enough bigots and racists in this country to enable you to have your hateful way — even if every single one supported you.

            Almost 80% of Americans support some type of accommodation for immigrants who are already living here and have been for many years. Americans, who are mostly immigrants or recent descendents of immigrants, do NOT support bigoted hate like yours.

            Stop lying about wage growth. Zero percent is ‘stagnant’. Wages have grown much more than 0%. You need to find some truthful way of describing wage growth, because people who must resort to lying have alredy lost the argument.

            Reply
          58. James Bowen March 10, 2015

            The word amnesty comes from the Greek word amnestia, which means forgetfulness. It is the same root word that amnesia comes from. To give someone amnesty is to overlook, or rather forget, their crimes and lawbreaking. They can be temporary or provisional. By giving them work permits, that certainly meets this definition. Anything that allows them to stay and work, even if only temporarily, meets this definition.

            You saying 80% of Americans supporting amnesty (you might not like to call it that, but that’s what it is) does not constitute evidence. You have failed to meet my challenge to show me one shred of evidence to the contrary of the mountains of evidence I have shown you that suggest Americans don’t support legalization at all.

            You need to look at this: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/. Real wages have actually declined since 1972. As for the last year or two, they are pretty close to 0% growth if you look at that curve. Note that I am talking about real wages, not wages before adjusting for inflation.

            Reply
          59. James Bagley March 10, 2015

            Googling the etymology isn’t going to help your argument at all. First, you don’t even understand what you are Googling. Second, the meaning of the word is clear: Amnesty is an official pardon, and is never temporary. Name a single instance of an official pardon that was temporary. It never happens. You are simply lying about amnesty — there is no amnesty being discussed by Obama or anyone else. Nothing Obama did involves amnesty.

            I’ve pointed out to you many, many times that every lie takes you farther away from a winning argument. Your repeated lies about amnesty, which are designed to elicit bigoted hate, have you so far away from winning this argument that the chances of such a thing are effectively zero.

            I NEVER claimed that Americans support amnesty, even if there are a few out there who do. You are just lying. Your lying about amnesty is just as deceitful as if I would argue that you are incorrect when you say Twitter evidence proves that Americans support killing all immigrants. So now I will make up a ridiculous lying argument and attribute it to you just as you did to me. I’ll do this for as lone as you keep up your deceitful and despicable phoney arguments about amnesty.

            You are WRONG. Twitter ‘tweets’ do not prove that Americans support killing immigrants on sight. Americans do NOT support the KKK, no matter how many YouTube views you were able to get for your cross-burnings.

            Like that? Other people can make up lies too. I’ll follow you around and argue against your cross-burning YouTube videos and support for summary execution of immigrants for as long as you repeat your ‘amnesty’ lies. We’ll see how you like the taste of your own medicine.

            Reply
          60. James Bowen March 9, 2015

            Amnesties are official acts of forgetfulness regarding lawbreaking. Giving work permits to illegal aliens who are not allowed to have them under the law certainly qualifies. This not lying, it is in fact telling the truth.

            A lot more Americans oppose this than support this. I have shown you plenty of evidence to that effect, most recently

            with that article that revealed one member of Congress whose constituent feedback was well over 99% in opposition to legalization. On the contrary, you have shown me know evidence outside of push polls that use dishonest and misleading language to the contrary.

            With respect to inflation, average wages have been roughly stagnant since 1973. See here: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/.

            Reply
          61. James Bowen March 9, 2015

            Amnesties are official acts of forgetfulness regarding lawbreaking. Giving work permits to illegal aliens who are not allowed to have them under the law certainly qualifies. This not lying, it is in fact telling the truth.

            A lot more Americans oppose this than support this. I have shown you plenty of evidence to that effect, most recently

            with that article that revealed one member of Congress whose constituent feedback was well over 99% in opposition to legalization. On the contrary, you have shown me know evidence outside of push polls that use dishonest and misleading language to the contrary.

            With respect to inflation, average wages have been roughly stagnant since 1973. See here: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/.

            Reply
          62. James Bagley February 22, 2015

            First, before you accuse anyone of being dishonest you need to learn basic reading skills. Look at my post: I said ‘almost 80% of Americans’.

            Here is a link for you: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-post-shutdown-congress-disapproval-at-all-time-high/

            Here is another: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpublicreligion.org%2Fsite%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2FFinal-Immigration-Survey.pdf&ei=0lzqVNGLB4uYgwSIz4EQ&usg=AFQjCNFMUnHkKwmlQRwvJJ2_1y8pYRuB6w

            Pay attention to Figure 8. In fact, to help you pay attention, I’m also attaching the figure here for your immigrant-hating European immigrant viewing pleasure. As you can see but undoubtedly hate, the total support for some sort of relief that does NOT include deportation among Americans as a whole adds up to 79%. Republican European immigrants and especially Tea-Party European immigrants (who hate everything and everybody) naturally have a higher immigrant-hate percentage as a group, but even there they are a minority.

            Just in case you were wondering, 77% and 79% both qualify as ‘almost 80%’, which was what I actually posted.

            So there you go: I taught you how to read written English and posted 2 examples that demonstrate my point without even having to make much of an effort.

            Reply
          63. angelsinca February 22, 2015

            Thanks for the added information. I will get back to you after I have a chance to read and digest it all.

            In response to your sycophantic comment, “I taught you how to read written English…”, I can read just fine. I wasn’t calling you dishonest. You claimed to me, “… you don’t have an honest point to make.” In response, I replied with, “An accusation of dishonesty doesn’t answer the question ” (regarding the source of your the 80% claim). Please don’t lecture others on their reading skills. Yours are, well, not the best.

            Reply
          64. angelsinca February 22, 2015

            Ok, I spent enough time to get your point, that you hate European immigrants because you believe they all hate non European immigrants. I thought you would have had more to say. It seems I was just an excuse for you to hate on someone you ‘think’ is a European white immigrant of tea party pursuasion. Please holster the charges and accusations. You are way off base. I am a tenth generation American. My wife is a first generation immigrant of Hispanic origins. You have hate issues to deal with. Don’t drag me into them. Sorry to have to bothered you.

            Reply
          65. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            There’s that reading thing again. I don’t hate Europeans. I don’t even hate bigoted Europeans who hypocritically look down on other immigrants. I’ve stated on many occasions that immigration has usually been a good thing for America, even if a minority of immigrants turn out to be selfish, hypocritical immigrant haters.

            Reply
          66. James Bagley February 23, 2015

            Ha! Fair enough — you and I both could do a better job of reading, I suppose.

            The majority of polls I’ve seen for the last couple of years are usually around 70-78% in favor of providing some relief for undocumented immigrants who are already in this country. But no matter the exact percentage, the one important point is that all of them show a majority support some form of relief and not simply deportation.

            Reply
  3. hannamontana80 February 21, 2015

    If today’s liberals will callously murder the unborn, who won’t they attack?

    Reply

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