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Sanders’ Social Democracy Versus Trump’s Authoritarian Doctrine

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Sanders’ Social Democracy Versus Trump’s Authoritarian Doctrine

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Reprinted with permission from AlterNet

President-elect Trump scored a remarkable victory by saving 1,000 of the 2,100 jobs that Carrier and its parent company, United Technologies, were outsourcing to Mexico. During the campaign, Trump pledged to stop those jobs from leaving the country and he has come through (much credit should be given to the United Steelworkers for keeping this issue alive).

Trump used the plight of those workers, represented by the United Steelworkers, as a battering ram to pummel Hillary Clinton on trade and the loss of decent paying U.S. manufacturing jobs. Now, his partial success could lead to a mass exodus of working people from Democratic party.

The Myth of the White Working Class

Post-election pundits are propagating the false equation that “industrial workers” equals “white working class,” and that Clinton’s crushing defeat in the Rust Belt was the result of a white worker revolt against political correctness — i.e., they’re racists!

But America’s industrial workforce reflects the future, not the past. The 1,400-person Carrier workforce in Indianapolis, for example, is 50 percent African American. Women make up half of the workers on its assembly lines, and 10 percent of the employees are Burmese immigrants.

This means Donald Trump, bigot in chief, has just saved the decent-paying, unionized jobs of women, African Americans, immigrants and white workers. Look out Democrats.

Benign Neglect at the Democratic Party

Trump’s effort to save these jobs contrasts starkly with the failure of the established Democratic Party to do anything at all about such devastating plant closures. President Obama has never used his bully pulpit to mention even one of the thousands of facilities that shifted abroad under his watch. Similarly, Hillary Clinton remained silent about Carrier during her entire campaign, thereby allowing Trump to morph into the champion of the working class.

But none of that is particularly surprising given how deeply Wall Street/corporate elites are embedded within the Democratic Party. More troubling still is that party elites believe these relocations are economically justifiable.

Neoliberal ideology (the holiness of tax cuts, privatization, deregulation, and the free movement of capital) has become the conventional wisdom of the entire political establishment of both parties. The media in particular echoes the inaccurate notion that these facilities must move so that the parent company can keep up with competition. (Carrier, in fact, is leaving in order to secure more funds for stock-buybacks to enrich hedge funds and top corporate officers.) All of this capital mobility is pictured as result of globalization—a force akin to an act of God.

Virtually every article on Carrier opines that Trump’s quick fix cannot alter the technological march that surely will displace these blue collar workers. What they are really saying is the corporations have the right and obligation to move wherever and whenever they wish in order to boost profits and “shareholder value.” Mainstream economists then assure us that, overall, society is better off due lower-cost imported goods and higher value-added domestic jobs, even if a few workers are sacrificed along the way.

But a “few workers” have turned into millions of family members and members of devastated communities who have seen their lives deteriorate. They are heading Trump’s way.

Sanders to the Rescue?

Bernie Sanders saw all this coming. That’s why he challenged Clinton in the first place, and that’s why he’s now trying to capture the Democratic Party and turn it into the champion of working people against Wall Street and “the billionaire class.”

In the case of Carrier, Sanders is calling on Trump not to accept a compromise that will still allow half of the jobs to be moved to Mexico. Staying true to his radical politics, Sanders also is calling for new “Outsourcing Prevention Act” that would:

  1. Bar companies from receiving future contracts, tax breaks, grants or loans from the federal government if they have announced plans to outsource more than 50 jobs to other countries;

  2. Require all companies to pay back all federal tax breaks, grants and loans they have received from the federal government over the last decade if they outsource more than 50 jobs in a given year;

  3. Impose a tax on all companies that outsource jobs. The tax would be equal to the amount of savings achieved by outsourcing jobs or 35 percent of its profits, whichever is higher.

  4. Prohibit companies that offshore jobs from enriching executives through golden parachutes, stock options, bonuses, or other forms of compensation by imposing stiff tax penalties on this compensation.

Reactionary versus Progressive Populism

The stage is set for an epic struggle between Trump’s right wing populism and Sanders-style social democracy. The corporate-driven Democrats may soon be irrelevant. Either they go along with Sanders and compete for the allegiance with working people, or they get pummeled by more working class defections to Trump’s brand of populism.

Sanders believes that neoliberalism is heart of our problem — that it leads to runaway inequality, a rigged political system, an exploitative Wall Street, and the full-scale assault on the living and working conditions of working people — black, brown, white, gay and straight. That system, he believes, also leads to the dramatic rise of incarceration, urban and rural poverty, and the stalling of real wages for the vast majority of the population.

Sanders understands we only can win significant social democratic reforms if we link together the full set of victims (most of the 99%). He’s talking about the kind of programs that will appreciably improve our lives — free higher education, single-payer health care, a major attack on climate change, massive public job creation, real criminal justice and immigration reform, a Wall Street speculation tax and now the Outsourcing Prevention Act.

Getting it Right

It’s too late to take the Carrier victory away form Trump. It won’t work to belittle Trump by claiming it only covers 1,000 jobs, or that too many public tax breaks were tossed to the corporation, or that globalization will eventually make those jobs go away. One thousand jobs means 1,000 families who will not see their incomes slashed in half, or worse. More importantly it means hope, that maybe outsourcing to low-wage countries can be ameliorated.

As a result, Sanders is making a difficult ask both of the Democratic Party, and of progressive activists in general. He is asking us to place working people at the center of our work: “The working class of this country is being decimated — that’s why Donald Trump won,” Sanders said. “And what we need now are candidates who stand with those working people, who understand that real median family income has gone down.”

To get there, Sanders is fanning a contentious debate: He argues that the current practice of identity politics is not a complete political program. As he bluntly stated, “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.’ That is not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industries.”

So what does this mean for the efforts of tens of thousands of progressive activists who are deeply engaged in halting climate change, preventing police violence, securing equal rights the LGBTQ community, protecting immigrants, and working on a myriad of other significant causes?

Sanders implies that for any of us to succeed, we all must join the fight to enhance the lives of working people. No matter what our priority issue, we will need to devote time and resources to fight for universal programs that lift us all up. In short, we have to expand our issue silos so that fighting Wall Street and the billionaire class can link us together.Sanders could not be clearer: Either we become a broad-based class movement or we lose. The choice is ours, not Trump’s.

IMAGE: U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders speaks at a campaign rally at Casa del Mexicano in Los Angeles, California, U.S. June 4, 2016. REUTERS/Lucy Nicholson

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161 Comments

  1. dtgraham December 2, 2016

    Well well well. How the worm turns. I’m noticing more and more of these types of stories in the National Memo since November 8th.

    Last winter during the primaries the NM had a series of daily articles mocking Bernie for everything from promising that the arrival of spring should be free for everyone, to being a grumpy wrinkled fuss bucket who’s owned by the big Deli and rumpled suit lobby. Their registered Republican hack, David Cay Johnston, wanted to practically ‘lock him up’ for not releasing enough tax returns. I think he had Bernie in a fried chicken scandal too after catching him licking his fingers. All Sanders supporters were apparently 20 year old, women hating, Bernie Bros thugs living in their parent’s basement. Remember?

    My, my.

    Reply
    1. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

      Yes, you and the other entitled white people DID help Trump win. Well done.

      Reply
      1. 1standlastword December 3, 2016

        Please…it is not that simple! College educated women, blacks, Hispanics, Democrats and Independents migrated to Trump out of desire for radical change from establishment schemes

        Hillary’s Robby Mook, bad data, bad advice, establishment campaign rules, media bias and much of her/ their own doing defeated her.

        If her campaign had of invited Stein and Johnson to the debate stage and she had obliterated them in the way Trump did the establishment cons she might have been able to preserve the slim numbers she lost by in the rust bucket

        Reply
        1. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

          None of that is true.

          Reply
          1. dbtheonly December 3, 2016

            The stats don’t back up any of that. Blacks for Trump? I’m remembering 8%. Hispanics? 27%.

            Though the radical change idea does seem to hold some merit.

            Mostly I just don’t buy the idea that we Democrats have to adopt the Tea Party of the Left, just because the Republicans bought the TPR. President Obama is no rational person’s idea of a radical leftist.

            I also grump at Ssnders becoming a Democrat solely to try to win our Presidential Nomination and dumping us about as quickly.

            Reply
          2. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

            Yeah. It’s not enough that they want to be absolved of indirectly supporting Trump, they are now demanding that they be rewarded. We have to stop pretending these people are allies.

            Reply
          3. dbtheonly December 3, 2016

            The problem is that we do agree with the TPL on any number of issues. I do want to see meaningful regulation of Wall Street. I do want to see health care available to all. I do want to see serious, constitutional, campaign reform.

            I’d like to have a serious discussion about the specifics and ramifications of free 4 year college for all.

            I’d like to have a serious discussion about the ramifications of a $15/hr. Minimum Wage.

            All with the idea of seeing the problems before we leap into the project.

            Reply
          4. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

            It wasn’t for nothing that I called them the Herbal Tea Party, though. They are immune to any facts that contradict their instinctive “knowledge”, and they won’t tolerate any deviation from what they have decided is The Only True Path. This is how they Know that Bernie was cheated out of the nomination, even though he simply wasn’t popular with the minorities that now form the bulk of the Democratic base.

            Witness the Greens – I’m in favour of stopping climate change and preserving the environment. They claim to be, but their platform directly contradicts that – they want to get rid of GM crops because of the undetectable death magic they contain (according to their crystals) and preferably grow produce as organic. That would require far, far more arable land usage*, which means cutting down more forests. One of them once told me that Asians (all of them! every single one!) would prefer that their children starve and go blind rather than grow GM rice that could easily fix that, because of “harmony”. In short, these people are dangerous idiots; catering to them is not only not desirable, but actually detrimental.

            * fun fact: GM crops mean we’re using only about a third of the land to grow the same amount of a given crop as fifty years ago.

            Reply
          5. dbtheonly December 3, 2016

            True believers are true believers. TPR/TPL.

            You start bouncing into the anti-vaxxers as well. Of course pharmacy for profit is a bad idea. How are we going to fix it without wrecking lots of other stuff?

            The presence of almost 7 billion monkey boys puts a stress on just about everything. Starving or blinding billions doesn’t strike me as a good answer.

            Still, I keep hoping that we can bring the TPL to look at their proposals and get some consensus as to what’s practical and what’s mathematically impossible.

            Reply
          6. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            What you don’t understand is that ‘I Am Helpy’ is an establishment, conservative blue dog Democrat who doesn’t want any of those things. There are a number like that.

            Reply
          7. dbtheonly December 4, 2016

            Conservative is an unquantified term. It may be applicable comparatively, but is meaningless on its own. I wish to conserve the concept of one man-one vote. Does that make me “conservative”?

            You and Helpy are certainly getting into it below. The mutual insults and accusations help no one except the Republicans. They win when they can divide us. We don’t need to help them by dividing ourselves.

            I’ll be happy to send this reply to Helpy directly if you wish. You both need to recognize that we need one another.

            Reply
      2. dtgraham December 4, 2016

        Nope. You did by helping to nominate the wrong Democratic candidate.

        Reply
        1. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

          Yes, you helped Trump win because you are an entitled white person outraged that you do not get the final say. That’s exactly what I said.

          Reply
          1. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            “you are an entitled white person”

            Nice racial stereotype. It’s one of the reasons why Trump is coming to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Thanks to people like you.

            Reply
          2. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            “I wouldn’t have supported fascism if you weren’t meeeeean to me after I already did it. You have to make it so the Democratic primary only counts white votes or you’re racist!!!1”

            You are getting stupider by the second, and let’s face it – you don’t got a lot of safety margin there.

            Reply
          3. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            See previous post. This time, I really mean it.

            Reply
          4. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            OK sorry you threw everyone who wasn’t white under the bus rather than help them. It’s because you’re garbage.

            Reply
          5. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Ok, sorry that you’ve thrown white working class voters in the mid-west under the bus, who voted for Obama twice but
            this time voted for Trump. They joined their blue collar brothers and sisters who weren’t white, in switching to Trump.

            You still haven’t recognized and acknowledged that because you’re stupid.

            Reply
          6. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            What does that have to do with you helping Trump win?

            Reply
          7. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            It lets me explain why you helped Trump to win.

            Reply
          8. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Ah yes “I know you are but what am I” – never does work outside of elementary school, baffles me why you witless morons always attempt it.

            Reply
          9. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            “I know you are but what am I” – never does work outside of elementary school”

            Ok, stop doing it then.

            Reply
          10. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Feeble.

            Reply
          11. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Yes. Very feeble.

            Reply
          12. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Then we’re agreed: you are an impotent weakling who can’t do better than this pathetic effort.

            Reply
          13. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            I am not impotent! I’ve recovered now. That Hillbilly Handfishin’/Swamp People porn site wrecked me for a while though.

            Reply
          14. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            You are even worse at being “funny” than Otto.

            Reply
          15. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Who said I was trying to be funny?

            Reply
          16. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            My mistake! Obviously, like all authoritarians, you are utterly without humour.

            Reply
          17. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Don’t tell me that you’ve never watched that Mama June and Sugar Bear sex video, and then later had “problems”.

            Reply
          18. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
          19. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            PS: the demographics of the vote are quite clear. White people, and only white people, gave the victory to Trump.

            Reply
          20. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Did you not read the very recent NM article, that had the rust belt working class that voted for Trump, made up of minorities of colour from everywhere, including even Myanmar? They had been two time Obama voters.

            Reply
          21. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            “It was the minorities, somehow, not the precious white people!”

            Reply
          22. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            African-Americans alone made up 50% of the Carrier employees in the rust belt states according to that recent National Memo article.

            You said that white people by themselves gave the victory to Trump. That’s just racism. The working class in the mid-west did, white or not. They were very, very, foolish. However, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats gave them reasons to be foolish. Bernie Sanders wouldn’t have given them those reasons in the general election.

            Reply
          23. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
  2. secondclassguy December 2, 2016

    Bernie is the definition of what a real democrat should be (and yes i know he’s an independent). I also wish he was 30 years younger because i see no one on the horizon like him

    Reply
    1. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

      FFS. He isn’t even close to being a “real Democrat”.

      Reply
      1. dtgraham December 3, 2016

        For not being a real Democrat, Bernie sure gave Hillary a run for her and Wall Street’s money.

        Reply
        1. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

          Yeah, he sure did help Trump. Just like you did.

          Sanders does not represent anything except dumb white males who think that wrecking the economy is a good idea. He has accomplished basically nothing, despite which his ego is swollen. His only saving grace is that he isn’t actually Jill Stein.

          Reply
          1. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            Gary Johnston is nice though isn’t he. It’s just the left that p*sses you off.

            Reply
          2. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

            The libertarians are the worst. What does that have to do with anything? You are not “left” in any sense – no part of the purist rigid orthodoxy you and the rest of the Herbal Tea Part want has anything to do with being progressive.

            Reply
          3. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            There’s always a first. After trashing Bernie and all of his supporters, Elizabeth Warren, and anybody else to the left of Genghis Khan for the last year, this is the first criticism you’ve ever made of the Libertarian party. It’s odd that you had to get shamed into it because I know from your postings that you have no shame.

            Reply
          4. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Yes that isn’t true. But then, nothing you say is ever true.

            Reply
          5. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            All true, Mr. projection and transference. If you ever catch me in a lie here, that means I’ve been a good student of yours.

            Reply
          6. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Uh huh. “I had to lie, because I am special”.

            Reply
          7. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            If you think you’re special, so be it. Fair enough. I still don’t think that’s a good excuse for lying, but whatever does it for you.

            Reply
          8. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Sorry you can’t read. It’s because you’re a moron.

            Reply
          9. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Sorry you can’t read. It’s because you’re a moron.

            Reply
          10. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
          11. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
          12. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            See previous two posts.

            Reply
          13. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

            Also, you seem to be confusing yourself with me. You’re the one who helped Trump win, and you’re the one championing Jill Stein, who actively campaigned for Trump.

            Reply
          14. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            i) I admire some of the things that Jill Stein stands for (as any Democrat should) but I’ve never “championed” her. Bernie, I have.

            ii) Jill Stein only “actively” campaigned for herself.

            Any more lies and fruit loop statements for today, or is that about it until tomorrow?

            Reply
          15. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Of course you admire Jill Stein – she is a conspiracy theorist like yourself.

            Reply
          16. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            I said “some”.

            Reply
          17. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Yes you think that you can half-support fascism. You are, of course, a moron.

            Reply
          18. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            So, I’m a moron. Said by the one who thinks that the Green party are fascists. They have their flaws for sure, but fascism? Really? Libertarianism is wonderful isn’t it Helpy. I’m still waiting for your second criticism of the Libertarians. Your first was 14 hours ago.

            Reply
          19. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            I love that you think you’re arguing instead of demonstrating that I’m 100% right. It’s because you’re a moron.

            Reply
          20. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            “I love that you think you’re arguing instead of demonstrating that I’m 100% right. It’s because you’re a moron.”

            Precisely. That is exactly how I feel.

            Reply
          21. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
          22. 1standlastword December 3, 2016

            All of Clinton’s assets in the way of experience and party preference didn’t matter!! No Trump fan here but here is how I see it:

            1. If DJT is operating a game for himself (most likely) he was stealthy enough slaughter the GOP establishment that was against him the whole way. Not possible without the People’s fervent hatred of establishment politicians (a worldwide trend). Hillary’s 30 or so years of baggage weighed her down and made her campaign–which had bad data (Robby Mook??!)–easy to defeat by perennial adversaries.

            2. Hillary had the wind in her sails all the way: the Establishment Party Rules favored her victory over Sanders and that caused strife inside the party resulting in a peeling-off of critical white votes, helping the only populous candidate left in the race (Let’s get rid of super-delegates: Put them in the same trash Democrats NOW want for the electoral college. We saw the rules dilute the People’s democracy, poison the well and present an unhelpful confound)

            3. The media “cooked” the Clinton campaign long before the season got started and long after it was in full swing and she “still” wobbled. The right tea leaves might have pointed to…i dunno… Al Franken! I predict his humor would have been more effective putting Trump’s fire out where Clinton cause a raging conflagration

            4. The conservative media “cooked” the Trump campaign but unlike Clinton “he” pulled them around in the cart! She avoided the media they chased and it fed her penchant for secrecy: That was self-defeating (Robby Mook??!)

            5. The Establishment Party rules—once again–undermined Clinton by not letting Stein and Johnson get on the debate stage. Together, they and Sander’s pull at least 2.5 m less votes…votes that might have given her the job (Robby Mook??!)

            6. There is a difference between political parties but there is little to no difference between establishment politicians where the business of the People is concerned. We are in a period of political revolution and Clinton is no revolutionary. Maybe and most likely we all got played by The Donald but revolution is like that. Far as I see it the letter is still in the mail. Trump is bringing in a bunch of establishment pricks which means (if he is not impeached) The People might revolt against him come 2020!!!

            Reply
          23. Paul Norman December 3, 2016

            The media made DJT by broadcasting his every word. Then Comey put the kibosh on HRC with his public letter. Wonder who paid him off.

            Reply
          24. dbtheonly December 4, 2016

            Pretty solid all the way through.

            Disagree about the Super Delegates, though I’m not onboard with dumping the Electoral College either.

            Super Delegates are the elected officials of our Party. They’re on the ballot, in those other elections, under the Presidential one. Their success is tied to the success at the top of the ticket. Thus they ought to have a say in who is in that top position.

            The Democratic Primaries are not exercises in democracy. They are Democrats getting together to decide whom our Candidates ought to be. As such, Independents, Greens, or Republicans, have no say in the matter.

            Trump’s already seeing that governing and campaigning are different. Even he is having trouble returning the djinn of hate and violence back to its bottle. He’s already facing some backlash from his base.

            Italian & Austrian elections should say something about the applicability of “Trumpism” world wide.

            Reply
          25. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            “except dumb white males”

            Nice racism. And sexism.

            Reply
          26. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            It is not surprising that you are coward enough to hide behind All The Racism Against White People and Men’s Rights. You are utter garbage.

            Reply
          27. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Nice stereotyping, Donald. Did you not learn anything from November 8th?

            Reply
          28. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Yes I learned that entitled white people like yourself don’t care about other people.

            Reply
          29. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            I care about all. Especially those who’ve faced discrimination for things beyond their control.

            Reply
          30. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            You helped Trump win. You don’t get to pretend you’re a liberal.

            Reply
          31. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            We went through all this last Sunday as to why Stein really isn’t to blame and why you’re not factoring in your beloved Gary Johnston. I’m not in the mood to do it again, especially since lying is your modus operandi.

            Reply
          32. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Your beloved Stein just cancelled her fake push for a recount in PA. She’s gonna keep the money, though.

            I hope that helps!

            Reply
          33. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Out of her control. Now explain to us why you told me last winter, at the beginning of the primaries, that you were a Hillary supporter and you couldn’t care less whether Hillary is even progressive or not. I wasn’t familiar with you then as a poster, and that was the last time that you were ever upfront and honest about it. Did ya think I’d forget?

            Reply
          34. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Yes she was forced to keep the money, just like the pair of you were forced – FORCED! – to support fascism because you are special snowflakes.

            Reply
          35. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            I was then puzzled, and quizzed you on whether a better strategy for you would be to make some lame statement that Hillary was indeed as progressive as her upcoming challenger at the time, Bernie Sanders (even if you weren’t sincere). Your response to me was, “why should I?”

            Remember?

            Reply
          36. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Hahahahahaha you are STILL going on about this. I can’t think why I ever said you self-appointed Purity Police were just like the Tea Party.

            Reply
          37. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Said by the one who hates any Democratic candidate to the left of Joe Manchin with such an intensity that he just makes up crap about him/her.

            Reply
          38. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Which Democratic candidates are you talking about? Sanders isn’t a Democrat, or particularly left wing. Stein isn’t a Democrat and is working for Putin.

            Reply
          39. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            In your case, most of them.

            Reply
          40. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Ah, yes. Deciding what my opinions are. Definitely a liberal thing to do, and not at all the complete opposite.

            Reply
          41. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            “Deciding what my opinions are.”

            That is completely irrelevant to political orthodoxy.

            Reply
          42. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            You made a claim. You can’t back it up, because it’s sheer nonsense.

            This is usual for you.

            Reply
          43. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            How is that liberal, or not?

            Reply
          44. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Why can’t you name the Democratic candidates on the left I apparently hate?

            Reply
          45. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Off the top of my head? Well, Sanders is a Democrat now, and you have such a pathological hatred of him that you say the kind of nutty things about Bernie that anyone with a nickel’s worth of common sense can see is clearly crazy.

            You’re not fond of Elizabeth Warren, and if she had endorsed Bernie in the primaries (everybody expected it) you would have trashed her forever, despite the later helping of Hillary in the general.

            Others? I’m pretty strongly guessing that you’re not a big fan of Dennis Kucinich, Allan Grayson, Sherrod Brown, Nina Turner, Jeff Merkley, Keith Ellison, Robert Reich (former labour secretary). Many others. Why don’t you give me a list of Democratic liberal/progressive politicians that you hate? That should make for a month’s worth of reading.

            Reply
          46. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Sanders is not a Democrat, and he’s not a lefty.

            Just because I despise your useless vanity candidate and an anti-science kook, doesn’t mean you get to make up my opinions. Of course, if you were actually a liberal you’d know that.

            Reply
          47. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            More bullsh!t that makes no sense at all. Why don’t you tell me what your opinions are so that I don’t have to guess? Where is your list of Democrats that you don’t like? You know, like I asked.

            Let me try and understand this: Bernie Sanders is not a lefty. That’s what you said. Let me repeat: Bernie Sanders is NOT a lefty. You’re going with that? Why not just be honest and admit that you hate Sanders because he’s a lefty and you’re not?

            What did I say to you in my previous reply?
            “you have such a pathological hatred of him that you say the kind of nutty things about Bernie that anyone with a nickel’s worth of common sense can see is clearly crazy.”

            That’s typical of your act. After assuring me last year that you were a Hillary supporter who couldn’t care less whether Hillary was even progressive or not, you later tried to claim that you voted for Bernie after you started to get your liberal bonafides questioned here. I remember that clearly.

            That’s just what you do. You throw out these little tidbits once in a long while to act as a very thin veneer for your phony liberal/progressive cover.

            Reply
          48. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Sanders – like you – is a pompous blowhard with no actual plans. Also like you, he’s not a liberal – he just wants to Punish The Less Pure. Remember when he was asked about banking regulations in an interview and couldn’t come up with a single point? Like you, he is completely superficial.

            He has accomplished virtually nothing the entire time he has been in office.

            Reply
          49. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            “he just wants to Punish The Less Pure.”

            Aaah, now we’re getting to it. That’s a euphemism for taxing the rich guys a little more, which you hate.

            Reply
          50. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            No, it’s an accurate assessment of your ilk. Stein wants to stop GMOs being used, not because there is anything wrong with them (there isn’t), but because MONSANTO. A million kids a year could be saved from blindness and worse with Golden Rice, but no: MONSAAAAANTO might make money (Golden Rice would be given away free, btw). When asked why she’s an anti-vaxxer, it’s MONSANTO. Sanders is the same – he wants to PUNISH THE BANKS. Does he have a plan to do that? NOPE, he’s OK if the economy collapses.

            If you actually wanted the rich to be taxed more, then Clinton was your candidate. Instead, you helped Trump win. You are a moron.

            Reply
          51. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            I always said that Hillary needed to win this thing, especially given the alternative. Bernie supported Hillary after the convention, and I agreed. She seemed to support the Buffet rule and that worked for me.

            Bernie didn’t say a bloody word about GMO’s. What the hell are you talking about?

            Reply
          52. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Sorry you can’t read!

            Reply
          53. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            FDR style regulations on the banks = Monsanto and genetically modified crops?

            You did notice that the financial services sector collapsed after all vestiges of regulations were removed from them in the 90’s? Putting those common sense regulations back on them is not “punishing them”, and won’t cause the economy to collapse. Actually it’s the opposite. Why don’t you just join the Republicans and be done with it?

            I know your conservative heart and brain (what passes for it) hates bank regulations. That’s why you loved the Dodd-Frank killing Tim Kaine as VP pick.

            Reply
          54. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
          55. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            That’s what someone posts who’s caught, and has nothing left.

            Reply
          56. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            See previous two posts.

            Reply
          57. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            And, of course, he’s not a Democrat. You said I hated left-wing Democrat candidates. Name them. Oh wait, you can’t.

            This is, if anything, even dumber that when it turned out you didn’t know O’Malley had withdrawn from the primary.

            Reply
          58. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Still waiting for the Democrats that you don’t like. I took a guess and named them myself — remember? That was just a few posts up. Alzheimers setting in early?

            Reply
          59. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Yes, but I don’t hate any of those people? To the best of my knowledge, I haven’t mentioned any of them in any post except possibly in passing. I mean, you’re actually getting delusional here.

            Such a weird assertion for you to make without evidence. Oh wait, you don’t need evidence – you’re a conspiracy theorist and a moron.

            Reply
          60. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            OK, help me out with my delusions and conspiracies. Name the lefty Democrats that you don’t like. You’re the one who brought this topic up, not me.

            Reply
          61. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Um, you are broken in the goddam brain.

            Reply
          62. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            “Why can’t you name the Democratic candidates on the left I apparently hate?” — said Helpy.

            You are a liar in the goddam brain.

            Reply
          63. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Wow. You are outright nuts. Sorry I asked you what the hell you were talking about when you made a bizarre claim about me!

            “Said by the one who hates any Democratic candidate to the left of Joe
            Manchin with such an intensity that he just makes up crap about him/her.”
            – you

            It’s astonishing that you accuse me of making up stuff about other people IN THE SAME BREATH as making up something about me.

            You. Are. A. Moron.

            Reply
          64. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            What’s this bizarre claim that I made about you? You asked me to name the Democratic liberal/progressive politicians that you hate. I mostly didn’t have names but guessed at them, and then asked you to tell me who they might be. What’s bizarre about that?

            You’re giving the National Memo readers an insight into your unique personality and grasp of reality. I’ve been aware of this for quite some time now.

            Reply
          65. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Can you not read?

            Reply
          66. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            I’d ask whether you can understand or comprehend, but with you I know it’s just an act.

            Reply
          67. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            You’re right – I don’t comprehend why you’re insisting I made up the bizarre assertion you made, and that I just re-quoted.

            You are a moron.

            Reply
          68. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Right. Now you’re into your Einstein unified theory of relativity phase where Helpy string theory makes everything posted previously seem irrelevant, and now anything goes.

            More insight for National Memo readers into the strange freakish mind of ‘I am Helpy’.

            Reply
          69. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            I’m sure you think you made some sort of coherent point there, instead of sounding like an angry moron.

            Reply
          70. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Let me bring you back to our universe, Kepler. The original question was, which liberal/progressive politicians do you not like? You asked me to name which ones that I thought you didn’t like. I mostly had no names and had to guess. So, which ones don’t you like? Fill us in.

            Reply
          71. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            OK sorry you think I have a time machine or whatever and made you make that baseless assertion. It’s because you’re a moron.

            Reply
          72. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Absolute f*cking dog’s breakfast, insane nonsense, without answering the question. Classic Helpy.

            Reply
          73. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            It’s so weird you think there was even a question. You stated I hated left-wing Democratic candidates, based on nothing. I asked you to name them. Then you had a meltdown. What is even going on in whatever passes for your mind?

            Reply
          74. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Weird you understand. Anyone who thinks that simply going back to the separation of commercial and investment banking again (in place for 60 years) is punishing the banks and will cause the economy to collapse, is a right wing nut who obviously has a problem with the Democratic left. Especially when you also believe that Bernie Sanders wants to punish the less pure. Punish the less pure?

            “Sanders is the same – he wants to PUNISH THE BANKS. Does he have a plan to do that? NOPE, he’s OK if the economy collapses.”

            “he’s not a liberal – he just wants to Punish The Less Pure.”

            You’re a nut. By the way, he did have a plan. He didn’t need to know the exact details of how it would be done; just that it could be and the benefits of doing so. That’s for attorneys and accountants. Was he supposed to teach a course on accounting for business combinations during a debate?

            Reply
          75. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            What does any of that drivel have to do with your claim that I hated left-wing Democratic candidates that I have never, ever mentioned in any post?

            Reply
          76. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Who was the Democratic candidate who was Hillary Clinton’s main left wing Democratic challenger in this year’s Democratic party primaries?

            Now go away Tourette boy. There’s only so much of you that I can stand in one week.

            Reply
          77. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            Ah, back to the ableism. Who would have thought a fake liberal would also be a dull bigot?

            Reply
          78. dtgraham December 5, 2016

            Based on nothing??? Gee, I seem to recall Bernie Sanders being a left-wing Democratic candidate recently, and he sure as hell isn’t on your Christmas card list you freak. Of course that’s when you’re not saying this:

            “Sanders isn’t a Democrat, or particularly left wing.”

            Remember that? You would be the only person on planet f*cking earth who thinks that Bernie Sanders is not particularly left wing (by American political standards anyway). You’re f*cked in the head.

            Reply
          79. I Am Helpy December 5, 2016

            That’s two replies to the same post, although at least this one has something vaguely to do with the topic. To sum up: Your evidence that I hate a specific list of left-wing Democratic candidates that I’ve never mentioned is that I think Sanders – not a Democrat and not left wing – is useless. Weird. It’s almost like you’re calling people DINOs, like some kind of authoritarian Herbal Tea Party purity police or something.

            I don’t even see what my opinion on people has to do with your support of Trump or defense of Stein, who directly campaigned for him, though.

            Reply
          80. dpaano December 9, 2016

            Again, you now Stein is working for Putin how??? Is this coming from one of those false news stories or from Breitbart of FAUX news?

            Reply
          81. I Am Helpy December 9, 2016

            She literally attended a dinner with Putin and Trump’s man Flynn right after the election, and at least one of her campaign staff did likewise during the election. She repeatedly called for her supporters to vote for Trump over Clinton, and is notorious for never, ever saying anything harsh about Putin and his human rights record (which is why the Russian Greens loathe the US Greens).

            Being a dangerous idiot, she might not know she’s working for Putin, but she is – just as Assange and Trump are.

            Reply
          82. dpaano December 9, 2016

            Actually, Stein did NOT cancel the recount in PA….the court cancelled the recount. You need to read the newspaper once in a while before you say things that actually are not correct. The same thing is happening in Michigan! And, we can probably thank Trump for his meddling in the recounts for this…..not sure WHY he is so against the recounts since he’s pretty sure he won fair and square! You can bet that if he had lost, he would have done the very same thing as Stein!

            Reply
          83. I Am Helpy December 9, 2016

            This is not accurate. She gave a press conference announcing she was cancelling the effort due to the money requirement.

            Reply
          84. dpaano December 9, 2016

            You need to catch up on the news….State of PA cancelled the recount. Stein is going to a higher court now to get it reinstated. Several counties had already been counted before the state stopped it. She already paid the money for the count and is now asking for a refund of the money if she doesn’t win in the higher court. She plans on using the money to investigate how our government is being hacked by outside forces! You can be assured that Trump’s cronies had a hand in getting the State to back down on the counts! Check your facts, Helpy, before you deny a truth!

            Reply
          85. I Am Helpy December 9, 2016

            I can only go by what they themselves have said. PA asked for one million dollars; Stein didn’t want to pay it. This is, again, what both she and the Greens have publicly stated.

            Reply
          86. dpaano December 9, 2016

            According to the news today, she had paid the entire amount; however, the court canceled the recount after several counties had already started counting. She is now asking for the money that was paid for the recount be reimbursed….over $900,000. She intends to use the money to continue to investigate hacking by outside sources and ways to counteract these in the future.

            Reply
          87. dpaano December 9, 2016

            How do you know that dtgraham is “entitled?” Have you ever actually met him? It galls me that people call other people names on this post when they have NO idea who the other person is or what he or she stands for! Instead of calling each other names, we need to start thinking seriously about Democrats that we can start looking at to run in 2018 during the mid-term elections and a good candidate (or two) to run against Trump in 2020! Calling each other names is not getting that job done! Can’t you guys just agree to disagree?

            Reply
          88. I Am Helpy December 9, 2016

            Sanders purists are the VERY DEFINITION of entitled. They insist that the Democratic Party has to select only the narrow candidate they support, and don’t care that minority voters overwhelmingly supported Clinton. This is white privilege in action.

            Reply
        2. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

          I also don’t understand how staying in the race way past the point when it was obvious he’d lost, then going on to lose at the convention worse than any Democratic candidate in at least the last thirty years, constitutes “a run for her money”. But, you know – you do you, entitled white guy.

          Reply
          1. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            I don’t know. I think Martin O’Malley did a little worse.

            Reply
          2. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

            Sorry you can’t read! The part you missed was “convention”. No other candidate for decades has been egotistical enough to lose that badly, because they sensibly bow out.

            Reply
          3. dtgraham December 3, 2016

            O’Malley went to the convention, where he proceeded to lose worse than Bernie. He had zero primary delegates, Bernie had 1846 primary delegates. Bernie was 359 primary delegates behind Hillary. Most candidates who enter the race don’t get that close to the winner, so you’re wrong per usual.

            I don’t count super delegates because they don’t vote in the primaries. Case in point: some of the states that Bernie lost in the primaries by a slim margin, he ended up losing by a much larger margin at the convention. Some of the states that Bernie won in the primaries, he ended up losing at the convention. This was all due to super delegates voting for Hillary in circumstances where there was no justification for doing so.

            I hope that helps.

            Reply
          4. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            O’Malley withdrew in February, you ridiculous poser.

            Reply
          5. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            So? You said Democratic candidates. Oh, finalists? Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale’s main challengers lost by much bigger margins than Bernie. Demonstrably wrong again.

            Reply
          6. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            Sorry you can’t read! It’s because you’re a moron.

            Reply
          7. dtgraham December 4, 2016

            Your standard fallback. An utterly nonsensical, two sentence, inane reply that doesn’t even begin to address why the other poster is supposed to be a moron. Especially mystifying since anyone with a nickel’s worth of common sense can see that you’re clearly wrong, yet you’re still arguing about…..something.

            Reply
          8. I Am Helpy December 4, 2016

            See previous post.

            Reply
          9. dpaano December 9, 2016

            Actually, I kinda liked Martin O’Malley. He had some great ideas, but he went unheard!

            Reply
          10. Paul Norman December 10, 2016

            Yeah, O’Malley impressed me as a good honest guy with great ideas. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I really liked him.

            Reply
          11. dpaano December 12, 2016

            I did too….he seemed to have important things to say, but Trump and Hillary drowned him out and the journalists didn’t even give him a chance. I hope that he thinks about running again in 2020!

            Reply
          12. Paul Norman December 3, 2016

            Right on! He could have dropped out lots earlier to really support HRC rather than spending time on his super left down ballot candidates.

            Reply
      2. dpaano December 9, 2016

        He always said he was a “socialist democrat.” Not exactly sure what that means, but that’s what he always said.

        Reply
        1. dtgraham December 9, 2016

          That’s social democrat. It can also be called democratic socialist. The party representing that philosophy is often simply called the Social Democrats in Europe. Think Gerhard Schroeder or Helmut Schmidt in Germany, or Francois Hollande in France, or Olof Palme in Sweden. In Britain they’re referred to as the Labour party. In Canada they’re called the New Democratic Party (NDP).

          Although not in America, there’s often another similar party to the social democrats, that’s center to center-left. That would be the Liberal Democrats in England or the Liberal Party of Canada for example. The social democratic party would be slightly to the left of that. Think of the differences between Bernie and Hillary for illustration.

          However, these days the Liberal Party of Canada has moved far enough left to compete with the NDP, that there’s little difference between the two of them anymore. In Tony Blair’s time, he moved Labour closer to the center and narrowed the difference between themselves and the Liberal Democrats in that way.

          Reply
          1. dpaano December 12, 2016

            Thanks for explaining, dt, I don’t know much about Sanders or Socialist Democrats (or Social Democrats), and your explanation was very succinct and informational. I just learned some new stuff! Always good to learn new stuff on a daily basis!

            Reply
    2. Dominick Vila December 3, 2016

      Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, and a few others are likely to emerge as the future leaders of the Democratic party. The most significant shift is going to be in what the Democratic party stands for, and who it fights for. Hillary was a centrist, with close ties to Wall Street, and too dependent on ethnic and cultural minorities, often at the expense of the white majority…and she paid dearly for it.
      Bernie Sanders is a charismatic and visionary politician, but he is too old, and will not be a factor in 2020. We need new blood, a new vision, and politicians who do not take their constituencies for granted.

      Reply
      1. itsfun December 3, 2016

        Yep; she completely ignored the hard working middle class families. Sanders is a Socialist. I think Warren is also a socialist or darn close to being one. Corey Booker will become a big time player. I really think the Democratic Party needs to shift more to the middle. Making someone that wants states that are completely black and off limits to white a leader of the party would be a mistake that would kill the Democratic Party. The current leaders of the Party are in their 70’s. The Party leaders need to get younger.

        Reply
    3. yabbed December 3, 2016

      Democrats rejected him soundly in the primaries. He’s not in any sense a Democrat.

      Reply
    1. itsfun December 3, 2016

      LOL

      Reply
  3. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

    Why would we adopt the unpopular candidate’s losing vision, exactly?

    Reply
  4. Carl Sdano December 3, 2016

    To even imagine that the Donald will be better for working people than Hillary, is folly, as evidenced by his cabinet picks thus far. Yes there will be more photo ops of the Donald “saving” jobs, but they’ll be masking the reality of the largess companies will be receiving from the taxpayer. Carrier still is exporting more jobs than it’s retaining. The laws that allow companies to export jobs while offshoring profits, begins & end with Congress. The Sanders & Warrens of this country have been fighting for reforms to end this. And the Donald’s proposed trade wars would be a disaster for our economy & jobs.

    Reply
    1. Karenrperez December 4, 2016

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      Reply
    2. dpaano December 9, 2016

      And a disaster for taxpayers who have to deal with all the tax deals that he will be giving these companies. Who do you think pays for these incentives…..it’s the American public! Besides, when did intimidation and bribery become the way to do business in this nation? Just because that’s the way Trump did business as CEO of his company….it doesn’t mean that it works for the nation!

      Reply
  5. yabbed December 3, 2016

    Sanders is as freakish as Trump but on the other end of the spectrum. He contributed greatly to the parade of lies about Hillary Clinton that benefited Donald Trump.

    Reply
    1. John Davis December 3, 2016

      No, Sanders had legitimate differences of opinion about policy issues, and he worked hard campaigning for Hillary in the last 3 months of the campaign. Voters misunderstood the issues, and some of them were even Sanders supporters who misunderstood. The voters contributed, through these misunderstandings, to the benefit of Trump. Sanders was never a “freakish” candidate, but a lifelong successful politician, dedicated to tolerance, acceptance of diversity, championing the working person stressing government policies that do the same. Although Trump is “freakish” in his narcissism, and that worries me while he becomes president, it is his voters’ lack of understanding of history, his voters’ willingness to be bigots and willingness to trash the progress under Obama that worries me more. And remember, 2..5 million less voters in our nation chose Trump than chose Hillary, just the 2.5 million less voters in the wrong states.

      Reply
      1. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

        Sanders didn’t have any policies, he just had vague talking points. Remember when he got asked about how he’d improve banking regulations?

        Reply
    2. Paul Norman December 3, 2016

      Sanders’ fault in the election debacle can be traced to a few things:

      – He did not pull out when it was evident that he could not win
      – He wasted time promoting a few ultra left candidates instead of putting his heart and voice into promoting HRC to the working class

      Reply
      1. yabbed December 3, 2016

        Exactly. The Democratic Party made one of its nice guy mistakes by allowing Sanders to run as a Democrat in the first place. He isn’t a Democrat and never has been a Democrat.

        Reply
  6. itsfun December 3, 2016

    Sanders will be loved by Socialists and Communists. His free rides would accomplish nothing except take away the incentive to better yourself and work hard.

    Reply
    1. I Am Helpy December 3, 2016

      It’s hilarious that you people – Putin’s lapdogs – keep trying to use “communist” as an insult.

      Reply
  7. dpaano December 9, 2016

    “Wall Street/Corporate elites” in the Democratic party…..is this guy serious? Trump’s nominees are the epitome of Wall Street/Corporate elites…..the richest group of people ever to be in charge of our nation! As for the Carrier deal….it wasn’t a good deal at all when you stop and look at it…..Trump didn’t save ALL the jobs for Carrier’s employees….in fact, he merely saved a small 800 of those jobs and the rest are STILL going to Mexico. So, what did he accomplish? But, his followers seem to think that he did a great job…..wonder if any of those followers are among the employees who will STILL be laid off when Carrier moves a couple of its facilities to Mexico! I’d be curious to know how THEY feel about the so-called “great” deal that Trump made with Carrier!!

    Reply

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